Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba, member of the Bais Din of Crown Heights, has seemingly released a message to the public through his son, Rabbi Yaakov Osdoba addressing the debate which has been raging in the community in the past few months over whether or not to vaccinate against COVID 19.
The message, shared among various WhatsApp groups, states that Rabbi Osdoba gave permission to publicize the following:
“In response to the many queries I have been receiving lately: There is presently much confusion about the advisability of taking the Covid vaccine and/or boosters. Much of the confusion stems from the differences of opinion from doctors around the world, including the local doctors and the scientific experts, the mumchim, that many in the kehila rely on.
Rabbonim from around the world are similarly divided in their directives. Considering this situation, each individual may consult with a recognized expert regarding the Covid vaccine to determine the proper decision for them, and they should not be coerced by others.”
On Friday, Rabbi Yosef Braun, also a member of the Bais Din of Crown Heights, addressed the debate in a voice note message to the community.
“I am not going to give an answer whether one should vaccinate or not, but I want to discuss the principle of Torah,” he said. “Like in every question, our Torah is the Torah of light and way of life and has clear principles and policies that provide us with a way of life.
“Our Torah is very clear – that medical questions are to be determined by doctors. You are not the barometer of truth. This principle that people should debate whether we should vaccinate or not vaccinate, and everybody has an opinion on the matter, is anathema to Torah.
“A question of pikuach nefesh is supposed to be determined by Rabbonim and Doctors. And someone will say, I will find a doctor who agrees with my opinion…I will shop out for a rov who agrees with my opinion,” Rabbi Braun said.
“And of course, as with everything we have a range of opinions…the Torah says to go with the majority when it comes to medical and halacha issues.
You can find a daas yochid – a sole minority lone opinion – which has been disqualified in mainstream halacha and rejected…but the majority of doctors who have licenses say one thing,” he said.
The overwhelming majority of doctors say to vaccinate.
The Rebbe said in these matters we should follow the opinion of the doctors.
Rabbi Osdoba is not saying to follow the majority here, rather a recognized doctor..
Dr. Zelenko, who was (and still is) a perfectly recognized doctor – well, except to those malcontents who’ve decided that since Trump quoted him, he’s persona non grata.
If you think he is a recognized doctor then you should be able to get a medical exemption from him
Zelenko lost his credibility when he proclaimed that 90% of people who take the vaccine will die within 2 years.
Based on nothing but the worst conspiracy theories out there.
so you are saying you haven’t heard this echoed by thousands of scientists and doctors. only zelenko?
Since it hasn’t yet been two years since these vaccines have become available, on what basis are you saying already now that he’s “lost his credibility”? Are you a navi?
And in any case, if that’s the standard, then for example Failure Fauci’s “masks aren’t necessary. No, they are. Yes, you need two. No, you don’t need them if you’re vaccinated. Yes, you do,” etc., are a lot more egregious.
You are saying that Dr. Zelenko is wrong because you CAN predict the future and know the long term effects of the injections? Why are you keeping this information to yourself? Shouldn’t you be telling the FDA exactly what will happen to people who have taken the injections in two years?
But the point is to listen to your doctor, a rofeh yedid
if, one has a question. b’clal, most people don’t. they are either certainly going to take it (due to coercion) or certainly not (from thinking themselves.)
Rav Braun said to follow the majority of experts. Rav Osdoba said to follow a recognized expert. The problem is that people aren’t asking any experts and just going off their own ideas and conspiracy theorists they never relied on for anything before
The doctors whom people are following in not getting _this_ vaccine (not, of course, ones for other diseases, as much as dishonest people try to conflate the two) are recognized experts too. That some people have decided that you’re an expert only if you follow Failure Fauci is neither here nor there.
Drs aren’t saying you have to get the COVID vax with the same surety as other vaccines? Any guesses why?
Funny because on the covid vax, every doctor (legit actual doctor) I’ve talked to has been a very strong yes, including for kids.
And yet each of them has had varied opinions on numerous other vaxes….HPV, chicken pox, rorovirus…to name a few that I’ve discussed and/or delayed with them over the years.
Actual working, practicing, respected MDs that I personally know and/or see for medical care.
I’d be shocked if you’re finding the opposite to be true in real life clinical physicians.
Look nobody is going to check anyone to see if they are following the rav’s psak but people who are thoughtful and want to do the right thing should understand what it really means to have a recognized expert vs fringe. Same with judaism. Hey the Torah says to pick a rav so I can go with reform rabbi Cristina and eat pork. Is that an honest way of choosing legitimate experts?
The majority of doctors said the Rebbe should be treated in a hospital after his heart attack, yet the Rebbe adamantly refused.
Things aren’t so black and white.
With regards to the Covid vaccine, due to the political nature of it, doctors can’t speak openly so who really knows the majority opinion.
Let everyone make an informed decision, based on their medical history / risk group, etc
He refused but was treated at home with all that was needed as if he were in a hospital, so he did not refuse treatment
https://www.gloria.tv/post/fQEdeQKE7fXp21ctKzJExTn8R?fbclid=IwAR1HQaKnPUOYnE6oOyMon3EVNiJXRjF4RlYMS-3gt5xbOLAGR6D_1gl0TJk
Finally a Rav that speaks, not pro not against, not hinting any hidden agenda.
Do what’s right, speak to a recognized expert and decide, but not out of pressure from either side, bottom line, live and let live!
Is that too much to ask? Should we be divided at such a time?
Much respect to Rabbi Osdoba!
Amen V’Amen!!
Why can’t this article merely say what Rabbi Osdoba believes? Why does it once again have to push the same narrative that collive is only publishing? Out of the four articles that were posted about the virus all four were pushing the vaccine. There is not one article that speaks solely of the other side. There is nothing talking about early interventions if someone does get the virus. That is very sad. We get it. Collive wants everyone to get vaccinated. Baruch Hashem we thankfully live in a time of knowledge and information where there are many sources where one… Read more »
It’s not a rov’s job to tell you what he thinks. It’s he job to tell you what Torah requires.
Because there is no valid “other side. ” There is only science or anti-science which is anathema to Torah. You seem to have missed the point of both articles
I don’t know if you can call it science, if any scientist that gives a different opinion gets canceled, or loses their job so it’s impossible to get the truth for fear of losing your job.
AND sanity! Thank you, Rav Osdoba!
יישר כח to Harav Osdoba for saying the right words.
This is what people were already doing, what does this contribute? Rabbi Braun’s message had clear advice about Halacha and Daas Torah.
Recognized experts follow medical majority. Licensed experts can’t make up their own stuff and claim that strawberry ice cream can cure cancer otherwise they wouldn’t be able to practice medicine. If you are really serious about picking a credible expert, you wouldn’t need to take a survey of the majority because that’s the job of the expert.
3 Cheers for Rabbi Osdaba. He understands that there are many doctors in favor of the vax, but many doctors in the know who aren’t. Also, not everyone’s situation is the same: there’s a huge difference between a healthy child and and a senior with a complicated medical condition. Kol HaKavod for giving a healthy and sane directive!
I wish one of them would just say “you must get vaccinated.”
Trying to play this middle ground so none of the crazies get angry is a waste of time and energy. The crazies are angry regardless.
What’s the question
Did you see the side effects?
Why would anyone take it?
🤷🏻♀️Just the fact that is being pushed the way it is, should wake everyone up, who out there believes the government cares about your health?
What side effects? You mean building up a stronger immune system so I don’t die? Is that the negative side effect you’re referring to?
I’m not taking the vaccine because the government told me to, I’m taking it because I care about my family and my neighbors and my community and my country.
If it is so effective then why is Israel, that has the highest vaccination rates closing down again, just a little something to think about.
Are you living under a rock ? Get in touch with the data from government agencies how many deaths they acknowledge as a direct result of the vaccine.
If they have the vaccine who are you protecting
According to science, it’s unhealthy for someone with antibodies to get the vaccine. That’s the problem with the mandate.
What makes sense to an overweight smoker may not make sense for a 5 year old child yet you want to treat everyone the same
So many Rabbis in various communities have come out in direct support of the vaccine. There is no misconstruing their words and the community can feel confident that they are following halacha.
Why is this so hard in Lubavitch? Why are these Rabbis not being clear?
Did the Rebbe speak in riddles like this? Is it normal in this community for there to be a lack of leadership?
You haven’t seen the Rebbe’s answer, which basically says that if a medical treatment is politically driven, it’s against Halacha to do it?
Please cite the Igros kodesh with this advice from the Rebbe
If a president is threatening the un vaxed it is pretty clear this is political.
There are people in other countries being arrested/ detained etc for violating health codes that have not been passed into law in their countries. Check out Latvia and Google information about other counties
The screenshot that’s going around shows that the letter is dated
Gimmel Teves 5738, and the top of the page has yud’ sof shin lamed vov.
Trump didn’t mandate the vaccine but he is in favor of taking it. That’s the reasonable middle ground that both sides are missing
I will trust Rabbis when I have a question about halacha, and I will trust doctors when I have a question about science and medicine.
Gd created both of them for different reasons, with different skills.
When a doctor tells me to get vaccinated, which 99.99999999% of doctors do (the remaining percentage are not educated, qualified doctors), then I get vaccinated.
It’s not too difficult to understand.
And yet there is a huge population of frum Jews who aren’t listening to respected medical opinion/following Torah. So here we are where it must be stated clearly for those in the back.
So yes, while it seems obvious to listen to doctors on medical advice especially when Torah dictates it, clearly people aren’t. Hence the rabbis have to come out to remind them what Torah says. I’d like to say they’ll listen based on that but….
It’s just so frustrating because common sense among frum Jews is just gone.
They require a Rabbi to spoon feed them logical medical advice, and then they don’t even listen to it.
Anytime a new and untested therapy comes out, you’re not going to right away have “99.99999999% of doctors” recommending it. Even when the original smallpox vaccine was suggested in the late 1700s – and smallpox had a death rate _50 times_ that of Covid – not all doctors jumped on the bandwagon right away.
So if your figures are correct, then that “99.99999999%” is about as meaningful as the results of an election in North Korea; it screams about as loud as possible that there is coercion going on here.
That makes sense but why does it matter about others no one worries if others are vaccinated for the flu
Either way, get vaccinated, get boosted, wear your mask.
Doctors say to do it and I’m positive they know more than anyone about viruses.
Get a booster and still mask up how many shots should we get
the lines are short, the side effects are normal and last for a day, and you won’t die!
I’m happy that the vaccine worked for you, as it did with many others.
However, we can’t overlook the people, that are having issues because of it. unfortunately, it does not work for everyone and is harmful to some people.
The virus recovery for many people ik is short and they are fine after and have antibiodies so…
I had the so called (non) deadly. Virus and am living proof that it is nothing more than a flu, and like any virus if treated early and correctly you recover as I did.
but praying for the CH community, you all might not be doing too well this winter.
I’m going to do great, I take my vitamins and believe in HaShem
And staying away from poison
You are aware that we’re not allowed to rely on miracles, right? We have to do our hishtadlus. Hashem isn’t going to save you if you continue to refuse the help He’s already sent in the form of this vaccine. And your vitamins aren’t going to save you either.
You are aware that we’re not allowed to rely on miracles, right? We have to do our hishtadlus. Hashem isn’t going to save you if you continue to refuse the help He’s already sent in the form of these vitamins (and early treatments). And your vaccines aren’t going to save you either.
According to ALL doctors the vast majority of yonger helthy pepole have nothing to gain by taking the vaccine! Becuse the virus is not a danger to us, so taking the shot is unnecessary medical intervention
I’m a young, healthy person with no pre-existing conditions but when I got covid in 2020 my lungs never recovered. This virus is a threat to all people. Please get vaccinated.
That’s sad but most people aren’t like that not saying it can’t happen but if someone was fine or had no symptoms then they probably will be ok without the vaccine
Vaccinated people are still getting covid in “breakthrough” so how does getting it help?
The amount of dislikes on every rational comment on these articles.
The people who gain all their ‘knowledge’ and ‘conspiracy’s’ from social media and the like, they think collive is just like those social media’s and posting dislikes will affect people’s thoughts to agree with them.
Well gladly collive isn’t, but it just shows how prevalent these clusters of people are in our community
Look how many dislikes my comment got. These cliques of conspiracy sharing groups in our community. I’m not pro or against but these loonies are the blind leading the blind
Not only are the vaccinated helping humanity, we’re also doing a mitzvah and following halacha.
Since the vaccine doesn’t prevent the disease, it does prevent herd immunity.
Wrong again. Halacha Says, that when it comes to a matter of life and death then if 99 doctors say take the shot and one doctor says do not you are supposed to follow the doctor that says do not even though he is very obviously the minority.
so proud to see so many people in line getting vaccinated with me!
Get vaccinated and stay healthy!
There’s no guarantee with that
I applaud Rabbi Osdoba for this statement. Consult the recognized expert to make the proper decision for THEM and do not be coerced by others. Brilliant. The whole controversy is captured in these few words of guiadance
I’m pro vax but against mandating it against healthy people and children, especially those who already got it. Those over 40 or at risk have much more to gain but those healthy will be fine either way. When I got Covid, my doctor told me that insurance wouldn’t cover me to get monoclonal antibodies because I was young and healthy. My daughter’s doctor also said that I shouldn’t worry about her because only a tiny percentage of us get hospitalized – it’s extremely rare. So why do my daughter and I need the vaccine? Saying that we should take it… Read more »
Doctors are afraid to speak up against the vaccine as many who did lost their license
With the corrupt government and big pharma currently dictating the science and available data around the virus and the so-called vaccine the majority opinion is currently worthless as most doctors are either blindly following the CDC protocols, or if they have doubts are afraid of telling the truth and potentially losing their licenses. I would recommend seeing what the group America’s Frontline Doctors, who are risking their lives to tell an alternate story, have to say. One proof that something stinks is the CDC and FDA’s lack of interest in studying the viability of natural immunity instead of just pushing… Read more »
They not only are not looking into natural remedies but there are natural remedies like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin both which are 100% safe and tested and around for 65 years and totally inexpensive and these natural remedies are being shunned and locked up so that you cannot have access to them, that to me smells of a poisonous rat
Please post!
Everyone is going to make their free choice
I love the top of my head three names come to mind though that actually four times although there are many many many many more but the names that come to mind though of expert in this field or Dr. Thomas Borody from Sydney Australia, Dr. Ryan COLE, Dr. Peter McCullough and Dr. Malone who is the founder of the vaccine and is vehemently against giving it to children as well doesn’t think it is safe altogether because they have Addit different elements other than what he had originally invented
I wonder if much of the division comes from the fact that each person’s experience has been different. Some are very unique and many have a location related element. For example, I believe most physicians on the East coast are recommending the vaccine. In my area I have attended maybe 15 visits in the last month or so. Have witnessed and a few tests and had one myself. I have not had one physician suggest the vaccine and 2 clinics I went to don’t carry it. I do believe people should weigh the risk against any potential benefits. I agree… Read more »
One should also keep in mind that the drug companies have complete immunity, provided by the government, of being sued for any ill effects of any vaccine. Add to this the demand that we give the government 55 years to respond to any FOIA request to share the data it relied upon in licensing Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine. Nobody should be able to mandate anything they won’t accept responsibility for.
B”H
Rabbi Osdoba says don’t let people pressure you and consult with an expert. That is a reasonable position.
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