By a Parent
Dear fellow parents,
I’m writing this with great shame that it has come to this.
I am a parent of 2 girls, and this issue occurred last year. I hope this will minimize it this year.
My family has been going to the bungalow colonies for multiple years, and this issue has surfaced more and more each year.
I was horrified when it began to happen.
Last year, while I was walking around, I saw more and more girls with their tznius being minimized year by year. It has reached the point that my daughters now are asking me to bring short-sleeved shirts with them, saying things like “all my classmates are wearing it, it’s not such an issue.”
I am writing to all the parents out there who allow their daughters to walk around like this. Don’t think it only affects your daughters; it affects all their classmates as well.
Now I have the struggle to explain to my daughters that it is not okay to wear things like short sleeves just because we are on vacation.
I am ashamed that it is happening in the Shchuna in Crown Heights and that I have to deal with this.
Please, parents, we should be more careful with these things. We should all put more effort into this as parents to make sure that this doesn’t happen.
Signed
A concerned parent
I hear your pain. Let’s brainstorm.
We are privileged to be the Rebbes Chassidim, royalty has standards written so nicely for us in Halacha.
Let’s keep our standards high!
I was in crown heights today and left feeling heart broken how many girls and women are wearing legging with no socks and skirts mid thigh… how can we help get the Rebbes Chassidim get back on track and be proud to be Tzniusdik and proud to be part of the Rebbes royalty?!
every time where you said Rebbes I think you should say Hashem instead
The rebbe is very close to us. Do you want to give your father nachas or happy. Maybe just say hashem not your father.
In halacha it says fear your teacher like you fear g-d. The rebbe connects us with hashem.
The youth that you are referring to have never met the Rebbe. You might as well say Soroh imeinu would be so proud, she was the paragon of tznious.
Wait till it gets warm…
Pain and heart broken are really good words to be using here.
We need some really smart and talented women to take this on.
I am often on Kingston early in the morning. Unless I am really close up, I sometimes (too often) can’t really tell between the goyes coming to the houses to clean and our daughters heading to the subway to work.
Let’s do the basic. Dig inside ourselves and become better, and you’ll (by default) be an inspiration to others. And, speak with others about it. Share, listen and farbreng. And speak with the girls that want to talk about it. You don’t have an official mentor label to help others
I’m not against it or pro
But if it’s a problem for you don’t go up to the bungalow
Or let your kids do it
Or find a different colony that is not like that
But for some parents, it’s not a problem for some girls. It’s not a problem, but you can’t change peoples lifestyle because that specific thing doesn’t work for you.
It’s not about if it works for her or not,
It’s HALACHA!! It’s the CODE of JEWISH LAW!!
As Lubvitcher Chasidim we have an obligation even to go beyond the letter of the law!!
My Hashem when will someone just stand up and say that if you want to be here PLEASE DRESS PROPERLY and if you feel like you are struggling and not on that madreiga THEN FIGURE SOMETHING ELSE OUT OF HERE AND COME FOR INSPIRATION! DON’T JUST TAKE OVER!
k like think logically. ur not gonna go the country cuz of some girls who are acting disgusting and want to be untzinuus????? it says clearly in halacha that you have to be tznuis!!! what is this??? this is not opinions but rather facts. and yes we have to be mechanech other ppl to help them change for the better. these girls couldn’t care less if they were tights or leggings, short sleeve or long sleeve. its the parents who should feel ashamed of themselves for teaching their kids like this. they bring the kid up in a way that… Read more »
You clearly are not a parent nor education.
We don’t live in a vacuum. When you live in a community you need to realize that what you do individually has an affect on the broader community. If you don’t like a certain community find another place to live, don’t disrespect and disregard the community’s standards.
At this point there are multiple standards in shechuna famili and there have been for at least 15 years. A sizable percentage of families in crown heights are more modern in how they view what is considered tsnius and there are other more subtle variations among families as well. It’s simply reflecting the greater Jewish Orthodox world where there are also varying standards for tsnius. This doesn’t just involve issues of tsnius of course, but for some reason tsnius is the one issue that gets spoken about the most. (I wonder why!) The irony is if you were on shluchis… Read more »
Next time you feel this way about a crown heights girls dress ask yourself what you would do to a not frum teenager staying in your house for a cteen trip. Would you yell, or look down upon them, or not let them be friends with your child. Or … We can focus on SHOWING what it means to be tznuis. Not one word has to be said. Not one word. That’s real education. A child can see the bracha it brings, the feeling it gives to the home, the sense of dignity and privacy. There’s no need to talk… Read more »
But to point out, the article is how we should behave, not how to treat the girls. We have to have a higher standard, and through education (role model etc) give that over to our children
well guess what?? bh they are frum and are lucky to be the rebbes children! w emust live up to that standeered!
The difference is that Chabad has certain standards! When we bring cteens to CH and they see girl walking around in short sleeves and leggings, that gives them a tainted view of what chabad is and represents. It’s taking a modern orthodox approach of pick and choose what you want to keep. It’s extremely confusing for children and I hated it as a child. Why have parent standards dropped so much in the past 10-15 years? Why aren’t we expecting our girls to dress tznius starting at age 3? This is not a personal viewpoint, its what the Rebbe was… Read more »
If you would realise that we have higher standards for our own, maybe your children would still be frum
If Moshe Rabbeinu had been more frum would his sons had followed in his ways? If Avraham Avinu or Yitzchak Avinu had set a better example would Yishmael and Eisav have been tzaddikim? Maybe if Chizkiyahu HaMelech had had higher standards his sons would have been frum?
Parents have a big influence on their children, but even David HaMelech can have an Avshalom.
im not trying to critizze this parent chas veshalm at all! im just gonna say taht the level of standadrs caries in the community which you live in. to say that what works with chabad house ppl and what works for our girls is wrong.
Look inside before spewing hate
Which is there really is no one standard anymore in Crown Heights. That’s just how it is. Ignoring this will lead to trying to come up with solutions which do not work. This isn’t the ’70s ’80s or even the ’90s when there was way more cohesion in Crown Heights and you could possibly argue about there being one standard here.
The problem is that when the same group of people attend our schools, Shuls, and camps and are considered Lubavitch Chabad, our children may wonder why they can’t wear short sleeves like the others. They might think, “We are both Lubavitch, so what is the difference between me and them?” This is unlike situations when you are on shlichus, where it is clear that as Chasidim, we don’t dress the same way as the non-Frum kids in the community.” dress the same way as the non-Frum kids in the community.
wow wow wow!!! very well said!!! you have a lot to thank your parents for for raising you in such a heallthy home!!! bh!! we are diffrent then chabad house people and if we let their standards become ours then our kids will turn out to be like them racchmana lettzlan
Grow up and take responsibility for yourself and your reactions. You take care of your family, teach your children. And when it comes to others you can be an example, you can teach in a positive way. What you can’t do is control others, that’s just not how any of this works. If you are on shlichus and don’t know how to view another Jew who isn’t doing what they should, you need to really spend some time contemplating what the Rebbe taught in this regard. There is no us and them and blame and looking down on another Jew.
I’m sorry but you seem very defensive about this as clearly this is something you struggle with and don’t want anyone to call you out on it.
Yes, we have to treat everyone with kindness and acceptance, But we don’t have to accept what they do as the correct thing when it is not.
If someone from any background lived in your house for more than a few days, they can be expected to respect the house they’re staying in and keep baisc Tznius.
The Rebbe sent out shluchim and wasnt afraid that they would be influenced by their surroundings. ANY surroundings…
Maybe the Rebbe expects and encourages the chassidim who presently live in crown heights to be the same; fired up about yiddishkeit and chassidishkeit so that it spills over to the community in a pleasant and organic way… :)!
[Going to the Ohel more often and writing about things like in this article should result in a stronger sense of identity with the neshama, which is the foundation of everything we do. We’ve seen the Rebbe go oh so often]
very well said!! thank you!!
contact the “tzinius” stores and tell them not to sell immodest clothing
Tell them to charge less for nice tznius clothes, or an oped for the community to fundraise a guemach specificly to buy tznius (I’ll will be sorprised/concerned If this doesn’t exist yet)
tzinius clothes to
Not that I know of lol
Will be nice that this post will have a real in the world outcome
That is not a solution! They will go shopping elsewear.
everyone please email them. Their emails are on their websites.
“I am ashamed that it is happening in the Shchuna in Crown Heights and that I have to deal with this.”
Why are you ashamed? And why do you have to deal with this?
Other people’s actions and decisions don’t affect you or your judgment.
you know very well and clear why we should be ashamed!!! the rebbes kinder walking around like this! untznuis clothing! its embarrasing how we could fall so low! we dont even realize whats wrong! and yes we all have to do what we could to maike this place dira betachtionim. you think that hashem wants to come to a place where girls are clearly going against halacha??? please, im asking you to do some reflecting and realize where your going wrong
“Do you think Hashem wants to come to a place where girls clearly go against Halacha???”
Your comment is so demeaning and disrespectful. Instead of being ashamed and embarrassed.. you should focus on yourself and what you can do to bring Hashem into this world.
At the end of the day, we’re one people with one goal. And it especially shows when you’re in a frum neighborhood. If you can’t handle it right now, maybe step out for a moment to breathe. All the best
The Rebbe brings this halacha many times: that someone who is mikadesh a woman al mnas that he is a tzadik, the kiddushin works. He is considered a TZADIK! The Rebbe brings once that this is even if he has a stolen item in his pocket! I assume the same would be if he was not dressed tzniusdik as well… Some food for thought. Eat it please, and you’ll grow in thinking things through in the way the Rebbe views it. And go to the Ohel to ask the Rebbe that your view should become his view. Then learn the… Read more »
but I’ve never heard of bungalow colonies and I don’t know what they are.
Dear jews who are wearing non-tzinius things: don’t wear that. No one wants to see you in it
wow!! im impressed! we have got one person out of everyne that wrote a response that is pro tznuis! its not appropiate to wear these things period
Simple solution, stop going to the country. As someone that does not live in NYC I fail to understand the “country culture”. There is no other place on earth where families of children pick themselves up and leave their regular residence for 10 weeks a year. Since when is it ok for a man to spend week after week alone at home? Since when is it ok for kids to spend week after week without their father at home? It’s no secret that the “country culture” is not a chasidishe culture, it’s been like that for years with only a… Read more »
You just answered yourself, as one who doesn’t live in NYC you don’t understand how necessary it is to escape the concrete jungle for a few weeks a year to see some greenery and enjoy some fresh air. Living in NYC is lovely and all but it is a densely populated and loud city that understandably people need a break from.
I live in a major city and like most frum Jews that live in major cities, I don’t own a vacation home. if we go away its for a week or two max, we don’t leave our spouses for the bulk of 10 weeks at a time. Last I checked crown heights has lots of trees on every block and a beautiful botanical garden a bike ride or walk away.
Of course you don’t understand because you likely have more than one tree on your street 🙂
It’s healthy to crave nature and although living in Brooklyn has many perks, bh, the downside is that it’s the city. We miss grass and trees and water. Simple
The reason you don’t understand it is probably because you don’t live in New York City 😅 the city is a very crowded place with very little greenery and outdoor space for kids which makes it very hard for kids growing up in the city to get the movement and fresh air that they so desperately need. The country is a place where they can get that for a few weeks during the summer months when they won’t miss school etc while they’re away.
it’s safer in other states
You’d like that wouldn’t you? But no cigar.
ur really not sounding very smart at all person. and maybe if you did live in nyc in this dusgusting place youde feel the need to go upstate and understand why we want to go. like just cuz you might see not apprpiatly dressed ppl in the grocery store dont go to the store and starve???? like ma kesh. the community has to take a drastic change immeditaly! wre falling to a very low point
Regardless, the tznius level is not that different in the city, the issue is not just the bungalow colonies, its the attitude
Maybe you don’t know of the country culture because you live in a cheap area where u can have a big house and backyard where people who live in crown heights don’t because they can’t afford it
If you live in such an expensive place i.e Crown Heights and can’t afford it, you should probably put aside your annual country spending for a few years and you’d have a down payment for a decent house with a garden somewhere a bit more rural for you and your family to enjoy ALL year round. If it’s ‘your choice’ to live in CH then enjoy it for what it is (don’t complain) otherwise get out of there. Sounds like those who ‘choose’ to live in the Daled Amos of Jerusalem on a shoestring, and complain about how expensive it… Read more »
Many many of us live in NYC because we have to, not because we want to. ( I will leave for others to specify some of the reasons).
If we could be in a more pleasant environment all year round, trust me we would.
Many of us have zero interest) or less) in the country culture, but as has been written, it’s the only way for us and our kids to see grass, trees, fresh air, open space, etc etc
Please don’t preach when you don’t know.
If you lived in NYC you would understand the need to leave the city
This is not a solution. If she doesn’t want to see untznius people, advise her not to go to the beach. Going to a FRUM, LUBAVITCH community (upstate or CH) she shouldn’t have to avoid it- that’s ridiculous!.
So what are you going to tell everyone who doesn’t like it to leave the neighborhood so ya’ll can dress how you want?? That’s twisted.
If all you do is look at what people put on maybe you need to look in the mirror
Stop judging people for what they do judge your self
Her own daughters are asking to go untznius, it hit home already… that’s why it’s bothering her… she’s not judging anyone
Sadly this can be seen in the streets of Crown Heights as well….
You will not catch me in any bungalow colonies. My kids’ Chinuch is too important to me. I will not allow my kids to be exposed to that kind of untznius dress day in and day out, all summer long.
No thanks.
the City is great, there are many good day camps.
youll find that in the city also. its not where you go, its who you meet. the country is fine but the chassidishkeit of the ppl is not
To “this is why”.
Maybe should we lock our kids in a cold-war bomb shelter. Your kids know good and well where their friends go to, and what their friends are doing, and how good a time they are having. This sort of approach can backfire, BIGTIME! And is Counterintuitive.
And besides, we have the same tzinus issues in crown heights as you do in the bungalow, so I ask: what did you gain with all this ????+?
The rebbes army requires us to wear a uniform
You mean hashem ! The rebbe serves as a shliach of hashem, to strengthen the word of..,Hashem !
It’s called Tzivos Hashem
About people using shorts outsides on colonies and call it אחטא ואשוב,
“ואשוב” when I’ll go back to town
Out of topic, but people that can afford trip to bungalows should feel affortunated that they are able to
As a parent, its your job to educate your child. True, their surroundings creates challenges but its your job as a parent to create the solution. Its your job to figure out what to say to your child when they come home and want to wear what others are wearing. Chinuch is the parents job. Yes, this is a challenge that you wish you didnt have to deal with, but blaming won’t fix it. Your child needs guidance on tznius that only you as their mother can give them. Good luck!
I remember in the 90’s growing up in Crown Heights and going upstate in the summer. Bobby socks were in style, short wide sleeves and later on in the 90’s the shirts that were just a tad too short…but ironically, skirts that were way too long. There were always some who had an easier time being tzniut according to community standards and some who had challenges. The truth is, if we are being honest, the standards of tzniut in our community are much stronger and stricter than it was in the early 90’s! The challenge you face, however, is not… Read more »
What a beautiful response!
You got at a huge issue that the writer only hinted at: why is this writer so scared about how to answer their child? That seems a lot more of an issue for her.
Why do you say she’s scared?
Many of us want strong good role models for our daughters (preferably of varying ages and stages) in addition to what we teach and tell them.
But if all they see around them is actually NOT what we are teaching them and even the opposite, where does that put us (and more importantly them)?
Not to detract at all from your incredibly insightful comment, but I do want to point one more thing, the social media aspect as well. That our girls don’t only see those around them, but a whole nother world on their phones, that gives them a completely different “user experience” of life. With various types of people they may admire and want to be like, and in general, everything they see, giving them a whole different mindset. Not surprisingly, I don’t think it’s healthy. Instead of experiencing the world and their life and seeing what they really enjoy (an example… Read more »
You can’t blame your chinuch challenges on other people.
You must take a deep look inward and help your child watch you as an example of love that although people have other opinions, you can have your own without loathing or blaming.
I challenge you to reread this calmly and see that it’s true.
Many of us want strong good role models for our daughters (preferably of varying ages and stages) in addition to what we teach and tell them.
But if all they see around them is actually NOT what we are teaching them and even the opposite, where does that put us (and more importantly them)?
Are you saying that if children go off the derech, the parents are at fault?
I challenge you to not blame parents for the social surroundings that their children grow up in.
I also challenge you to reread this calmly and see that it’s true.
Fortunately or unfortunately we can’t change other people. And so to blame or point at parents why are you allowing certain things for your children , whether it’s right or wrong will get us nowhere. A good place to start is to change ourselves or to work with what we can change or have an impact on, we can strengthen our daughters in doing what’s right no matter what other people do build resilience etc. make ourselves a living example and then our children’s choices come from within and not from what others are doing.
Everyone here is on a different level with respect to their Judaism.
Don’t judge, just control what you can, don’t control others.
all Israel is responsible for each other
I did not hear one ounce of judgment in the original article. Not even a drop, and certainly no sense of this shlucha trying to “control” others. It amazes me how many people respond to such a post and say, “who are you to try to tell other Jews what to do?! Mind your own business!”” Is that truly how you think the Rebbe would respond to an honest and humble plea to fellow members of Anash to collectively address an issue so near and dear to the Rebbe’s heart? Also, do you really think you respond is al pi… Read more »
Unfortunately, there are challenges in the schools in Crown Heights, too — not at this level, but in other ways. A lot of it stems from mothers whose tznius and eidelkeit are not in accordance with Shulchan Aruch, and the girls are following their mothers and there’s social pressure on the classmates. Like, “Shabbos sneakers” with gold trim, where there’s nothing edel, feminine or Shabbosdig about them… Back in Russia, Bubbies and Zaydes had Mesiras Nefesh for kosher chinuch, for Shabbos and kashrus and Taharas Hamishpacha and so much more. Many of our young people are appropriately awed and inspired… Read more »
This is very inspiring
Start producing leaders that follow the conduct
We all have certain struggles we have to face. Let’s not blame others and let’s take responsibility for ourselves and our children. Kids will be kids and they can be hard sometimes. The author seems to be putting her “kids being regular kids” as a fault of her neighbors in the bungalow letting her kids be regular kids.
Live and let live. Otherwise your kids will most certainly go off the derech as a natural consequence.
A Chabad tznius line for women and girls! New stories and tznius inspirations daily!
310-504-8001 LA
718-888-9898 NY
0-765-670-651 EY
There are also Whatsapp groups for those who prefer to read the stories and inspirations.
people don’t realize, in this society it’s considered “normal” to wear short sleeves
Or 3/4 sleeves above the elbow. It’s honostly embarrassing that no one chooses to follow the Alter Rebbes Shulchan Auruch. Another note, is that the rebbe spoke very strongly about girls being role models and we can teach our daughters that by telling them how lucky they are to be able to dress tznius when others are not.
It doesn’t discuss in the alter rebbes shulchan aruch the length of sleeves
it even says it in mishnayos
I think this is just projecting. Look. This isn’t just about tznius. It’s about anything we do in our way of life and customs.
Some people it’s kashrus standards. Others it’s tznius. Some it’s being a mentch. I’ve seen many a family in CH very kosher and very tznius but lack basic midos don’t show kindness to others.
We can’t control others. We can only control ourself and what we do as parents. If your parenting leaves room for your kid to be more affected by outside then the values you are instilling we must look inward. Not blame others.
To each their own. They don’t wanna follow halacha that’s btwn them and hashem has nothing to do with you. Raise your kids to be confident in who they are and their beliefs. Why does everyone have to be so nosy in ch everyone knows everyone’s business and everyone knows what’s best for the other person. 🙄 mind your own business.
That’s precisely the opposite of what the Torah says. You want to proselytize for another religion? Go find another forum.
I don’t think she’s telling everyone to become a tzaddik. I think she’s asking we acknowledge where we live and do our genuine best to live up to it
To teach your children the beauty and value of Tznius! The greatest gift we can give to our children is to help them develop their own internal motivation to keep Torah and mitzvos despite what others around them may or may or may not be doing. We need to help them develop their appreciation and love for Hashem, the Torah and all of the mitzvos including Tznius! They should feel like the luckiest people in the world that they get to keep Torah and Mitzvos ( because they really are!!) and they should be taught to have compassion for people… Read more »
But many of our own Jewish Chabad clothing brands sell clothing that are not tznius
seriously
Isn’t dressing tzneeus the least we can do to help protect our brothers and sisters in EY?
You can also encourage your children to have Jewishly rich lives by living in our homeland.
Eretz Yisroel living = Geula Living
living in eretz yisrael is not geula
Bungalow living = Geula Living
Mach Dah Eretz Yisroel
CH seems empty in the summer compared to rest of the year. I’ve never understood how people in this community can leave for 2 months and afford it. Even in some cases where the father stays home to work (and that is by no means everyone), how can they afford whatever 2nd rent they have to pay during the summer for a whole family? Can someone please share the secret?
My sentiment too. Older single bt, hard working, living in CH almost 20 years now, and don’t understand the summer country thing. I totally understand getting away from NYC, but not in terms of what it means being Chassidic, not a baal taivah, which chassidus rails against
Most bungalows are grandfathered in from many years ago when they were dirt cheap and affordable to everyone.
Some people rent, but only for a few weeks out of the summer, which is still cheaper than taking a vacation anywhere else.
I want to know
Probably 1/4 than what is cost in the city, some people sublet their places
I really don’t know
Dear, I understand your pain. Maybe teach your kids that every family is different. Every family holds at different standards. Every person works on themselves in an area they see fit. I need to work on tznius and you need to work on judging people favorably. Rebuking others won’t help, bec today it’s tznius and Tom it’s something else. Life won’t always align with what you see fit. You can only do your part for your family. Treat it like shlichus… much luck
Here is the solution: take your kids out of Crown Heights and put them in Beis Yaakov.
Beis Yaakov has the same issues, except they don’t have any Lubavirch varimkait to them.
Did that bh put my boys in a mixed chassidishe/litvish heimish school and same for girls and bh having so much nachas and see my children growing up amazing
Was in a town where the school was taken over by non chabad and ruined. Some asked the Reɓbe if even worth keeping the school and continued in school. We were not so mekushor, bh children came back and send their children to chabad and with much hard work were able to improve the school.
What should I say.
All those who stayed gained despite the school being spiritually and physically in the dumps in those years
it’s a shame you had to move your kids into a non Chabad school because the chabad school had low standards! But I admire you doing what you need to for your family
Why are my kids self- esteem so fragile that in order to feel “accepted,” they have to follow the Goyishe trend r”l. When I see Tznius children, I usually see a confident mother who doesn’t need to impress anyone by lowering her Tznius standard or being one of the first to follow a new fashion.
I hate to break it to all of you but contrary to popular belief the essence of tznius is relayed through a father not a mother. Harassing girls to cover up is not how the message will be received. When a mature and wise father understands that it’s his job to instill confidence and self assurance in his daughters, they will be less keen to seek it from social validation through trends or other people’s opinions. A father should tell his daughter she is beautiful and elegant often and reinforce positive behavior to help direct them in a healthy direction… Read more »
It truth what you say, but I dont understand why father more than mother
Girls who receive genuine affection and approval from their fathers grow up with a healthy sense of self, and don’t look for or need false affection and approval from boys. Boruch Hashem I was Zocheh to see this with my own daughters and I give my husband a lot of credit for really being tuned in to them! At one point he even paid one daughter weekly to wear longer skirts. It didn’t take long before she did it in her own, without the incentive. Fathers AND mothers—treat your children as the precious gifts and most worthwhile investments you will… Read more »
Would they wear that to see the Rebbe? No. So it shouldn’t be worn at all. Not in the house or out of of the house.
ב”ה Letter dated 13 Cheshvan, 5732, printed in Likkutei Sichos, vol. 18, p. 447 I would like to begin this letter with a brachah. More particularly—a brachah connected with the recent visit of several students of the Beis Rivkah Seminary in France who came here for Sukkos. Their exemplary conduct gave me much pleasure. May each one of them, among all the students of the seminary and of the entire Beis Rivkah, continuously progress in their learning and good conduct as befitting Jewish girls, each one of whom is referred to as a daughter of Sarah, Rivkah, Rochel, and Leah.… Read more »
Unless you plan on keeping your kids locked inside for the rest of their lives, they are going to see untznius people and people not keeping mitzvos. This post is literally not going to make one person more tznius. Focus on the things you can control, be a good role model for your kids, teach them to care about tznius, and arm them with a love of torah to face the trials of the world, then pray, that’s all you can do.
A taxi driver asked me why in some other religious Brooklyn neighborhoods the girls dress more modestly than those he was driving by in Crown Heights. I didn’t know how to answer him.
Unfortunately, there is no answer
how come satmar and the other poilisher kreizen dont have this problem?
When they fray out, they get kicked out of the house, so you don’t see the less frum chassidisher around. In Lubavitch, we generally don’t throw people out, so it’s more shayach to see people who are losing their way still hanging around Crown Heights וכדומה
Some of these young adults who are excommunicated are actually “adopted” by lubavitch fams as extended “family.” It’s heartbreaking to see their pain knowing that they can never come home, their family sits shiva for them. Some of them over the years became frum again through chabad. It’s natural to question, rebel or change. You never know what the future lies in store for one neshama. I’ve met countless people who became frum again, but the ones who had the doors closed to their faces forever tend to not. Keep the connection to your kids!
first of all, we are not discussing those who fry out. and maybe its better this way, btw. at least in satmar this stuff is out of the question and unacceptable.
I am serious
we can take lessons from the AMISH people who behave with 100% Tznius at all times
just build a bungalow colony near the Mormons and your children will have NO outside temptations
IT IS PRACTICALLY NOT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A CHILD SEE AND NOT DO
STAY AWAY FOR THE MOUNTAINS
There are several documentaries documenting the abuse physical, CSA, child brides, and psychological abuse that go on in those communities. As well as the the EX Amish living in the streets once reporting abuse withing the community.
We have the Rebbe as an example. We do not need to look to other cults for inspiration.
Remember … 1) tznius isn’t only in dress it’s in how we act as well. Teach your children how to act in a Tznius manner as well, let them act with ahavas Yisroel and kindness to their peers. I was very disappointed in how I saw a kid who was the new kid in the class welcomed. In this past weeks parsha we had the mitzvah or ahavas Yisroel and I was in a school where not only was the new kid not welcomed but she was ignored purposely and made fun. I’m not even talking about little kids these… Read more »
There are indeed certain known “Lubavitch” bungalow colonies where Tznius IS indeed compromised – we should thus stay away from there.
However, on the other hand, there are other Lubavitch bungalow colonies that are more Chassidish – and this is were you can go
The point of the article isn’t about blame.
It’s about about joint responsibility.
What you do effects other outside your family. Let us all do the right thing and make the Rebbe proud.
Why are many people feeling personally attacked? The mother wrote in the most non – judgemental manner about a real problem that we should all be trying to improve in. Think basic Halacha, never mind the extra merit for Israel, the soldiers, world Jewry, Moshiach….. And you can’t even admit there is more you can work on??? Hello???? And no, this doesn’t mean anyone’s a bad mother or lacking parenting skills, for not being able to explain to their children why they have different standards. How to explain properly why kids of Rabbonim and respected figures dress a certain way… Read more »
myrtlerising.weebly.com/blog/a-heart-breaking-afterlife-message-plea-from-naomi-a-young-woman-murdered-during-the-invasion-from-gaza
You can’t go around telling other people how to dress. That’s non of our business. Educate your daughters and tell them that this is our family standards and this is how we dress. Explain to them the beauty of tznius. Make them feel proud and own the mitzva.
These types of posts rarely go over well, rather they bring the ugly out in everyone. The Rebbe didn’t mince words when it comes to halacha and his expectations for people, but he also met people where they are at, and he did it all with a heavy dose of compassion. Build bridges, don’t burn them down. Teach your children to understand that everyone has areas that are more of a struggle than others. Your own children also have struggles, but their’s might not be visible for the entire world to see. Its not on their sleeve…so to speak.
The typical blame on someone else. Maybe teach your children about yiddishkeit
Can it be that others might interpret the halachos of tsnius differently than you?
Or maybe they learned the halachos of tsnius differently than you?
Think of It in the same manner as kashrus, just because you don’t eat a certain hechsher or shechita, that does not make the food Treif.
you might not like the sound or look of it, but there are different standards that different people hold by.
“vdai lehovin”
Sorry to break it to the Jewish moms out there. You don’t control everything, your kid has feelings, they’re not asking to do something harmful (I’m sorry it hurts ur soul, don’t oppress your kids ❤️). Get. Over. It.
Precisely the problem. You don’t (or choose not to) see what’s wrong, so there’s no need to try to improve or grow
You sound very upset
Seeing even one hair of a married woman is extremely harmful and damaging. (Me’Am Lo’ez) Women’s shaitloch/tichloch/wraps need to cover all of their hair. Why do women push their tichloch back so that a little of their hair is showing? Because the yetzer hara tells them it’s pretty when, in fact, it’s doing untold harm. Why do girls wear non-tznius clothing? Because the yetzer hara tells them it’s pretty when, in fact, it’s hideous. Whereas tzniusdikke girls are so remarkably beautiful and they shine. When parents increase in observance, Torah, tznius, etc., it elevates their children. When children increase in… Read more »
Shulchan Oruch says clearly that if some hairs are showing in the front its ok
Number one part of the reason is all the Machloikes going on in Crown Heights starting from the top.#2 have any of you spoken to your daughter’s teachers? Do you properly teach your daughters about this. Yes it’s important to talk to your daughters teachers about this first and foremost education begins in the home and the education the main Mitzvah is on the women because you are home with your children primarily while the men go out and work and work you must also discuss this with your husband’s to help you reinforce this so stop blaming others when… Read more »
You can not police other people’s way of dress, sorry. Every family will decide the standards they want to follow, and it’s seriously none of your business. It’s hard your daughters are impacted by this, but it’s your job as a parent to set the ground rules for your own family, and yes I am a parent. You can pass judgment all you want on people who don’t adhere to Halacha or Minhag like you, and that’s your right- but everyone makes their own choices.
We tend to view things through a lens based off our life’s experience, so if someone was/is judged for things they do, when someone says something that can be perceived as judgemental, they will assume the person is judging them. It’s a mindset you have to break out of
Ba’al Shem Tov said: A person who his completely innocent, and has never blemished anything at all, cannot see bad in any human being or hear a report of bad in any human being. This is because God does not arrange for him to see or hear of any badness. And therefore if you perceive that some individual is doing bad, or if you are told of some person doing bad, you need to know clearly that you have in you some speck of that particular badness itself. And even if you are a saint, even so, you have in… Read more »
But irrelevant
When the majority of the frum influencers dress not tznius but promote a frum way of life it is definitely confusing. The blurred lines are hard to discern with kids, non jews (I constantly get asked about specific accounts from not Jewish friends/fam) and as well as a BT myself. I dressed more modestly when not religious than most influencers do now. I’m fine with ppl choosing to not be tznius but I expect honesty, own it. I don’t get the kipah shaitles, while wearing pants or skin tight clothes. No matter how much you may try to prevent it,… Read more »
instagram is evil
so is facebook
anyone who lets their kids have these is really making the wrong decision
It’s impossible to police every aspect of our kid’s lives, they do spend lots of time away from home, especially the boys. My kids tell me most of their friends have burner phones and secret accounts.
what is a burner phone and what is it for
what percentage of boys have that?
did you tell their parents about the instagram accounts so they can delete them?
Because that is going to work? They will just get another burner phone and a new account.
The problem is you. You are responsible for your child’s chinuch.
the parents aren’t around? At school the parents are not there???
This struck a chord with me, as I too have grappled with similar challenges in instilling values of tznius and respect in my own kinder. It’s distressing to see societal norms shifting, even within our tightly-knit communities. I want to reassure you that you’re not alone in your concerns. Together, as parents committed to nurturing our kinderlach we can work together to a tznius and heilike world!
Is this really an issue to be talking about???
What about the Friday beins?
What about the class Minyanim?
The talking outside 770!
Let’s first sort out crown heights and then we can be worrying about the colony’s.
I mean how bad is the lack of tznius already
what is a class minyanim?
Actually tzinius problems is very important to fix
Its bad. Like really bad.
As a 17 year old bachour I am not always in control where my eyes go, lately times have been very tough to live and walk around the rebbes shchuna, i want to be a chosid with yiras shamayim but the current atmosphere is not letting me, I ask the crown heights community as a whole to find a solution.
guardyoureyes.com/
The whole chasidus is about moiach shalit al halev! GET YOUR HEAD STRAIGHT AND YOUR EYES WILL BE CONTROLLED! obviously if this is happening to you, you arent pushing hard enough to be a chosid yiras shamayim!
I would be more concerned with the yiras shamayim of our community’s future mothers than your problem controlling your eyes.
Seriously get a grip.
I take it you’re a woman. So am I. We have no idea what it’s like to be a seventeen year old bochur. He seems sincere in his request. One of the main reasons we have the dinim of tznius is because of a bochur’s difficult avodah. No need to get snarky with him.
We see people get very,very defensive when the topic is tzneeus. Hmm. This is the nisayon of our generation.Kol Yisroel arraivim. zeh lezeh.
guardyoureyes.com/
You cannot put the responsibility that you have As a parent on to someone else
If you want your kids to be a certain way, you have to raise them that way and not the Deflect the responsibility And try to hold others accountable for areas that you failed in
And then project those issues onto the community around you
And then deny any accountability in that area on your part
This is textbook the deflecting/projecting/denial
A huge problem!
These comments are so negative and full of rebuke and admonition! If you dont want to turn teenagers away than stop giving speeches and complaining. I also find it interesting that the only concern when it comes to her daughters being influenced is how they dress and not what music and movies they’re talking about. When the focus on tznius and being influenced by others is strictly focused only on how people dress than the message won’t be taken seriously. Most importantly, you can’t control a community like its a dictatorship. We’re all human amd Noone is perfect and we… Read more »
I was in a clothing store when i saw a chabad lady with her girls buying clothes
And I overheard her say “ok so lets just do the Tznius test” and they lifted their arms to make sure the sleeves dont ride up & they sat down to see if the dress covers the knees!
I was verrry impressed!!
AZOI DARF ZEIN!!!
Cuz we are the Rebbes children
THINK ABOUT THAT!!
When Moshiach appears will we be comfortable greeting him??
My girls will get the vermkeit and chinuch of lubavitch chassidus at home and from mishpocho and let them go to the chassedishe schools/Bais Yaakov to develop their character, passions, trends, dress code, and style.
For seminary, i’ll send them to a Lubavitcher shtarke one and sem bais in bais rivkah. Zehu.
No other choice for now.
ich hub nisht kan koiach far ale shtusim! No more. Ad kan.
It’s an impossible war.
If in Crown Heights, where are tzinus bathing suits sold? If online only, what do we type in?
If you are referring to regular swimsuits with a full coverage bottom, you may want to try land’s end or talbots. If you are referring to the bathing suits that cover you like a dress, I have no idea. Maybe someone else reading this does. I hope you find what you need.
Aquamodesta.com
People can choose to live where ever they want. People can choose to dress however they want. Run their houses how they want.
If the choices that people are making are not in the Lubavich line of values, THEN THEY DONT BELONG IN OUR INSTITUTIONS
And then, they won’t be part of our community, and our children won’t. E friends with their children, and we will end up in different bungalow colonies
It shouldn’t be the norm to be not tznuisdig. it should be the exception not the rule. The fact that so many girls are pressured to dress in way not befitting a bas yisroel is very sad. I wish there was more of an atmosphere where tznuis is glorified.
How can you be so selfish like that! It literly says in the Torah vahavta Leracha kamocha, love your fellow like yourself. Just because someone is struggling in their tzniusness doesn’t automatically make them a bad person. You can for example be struggling in davening or kibud av vaim, and this person would be excelling in those aspects. You can’t base your jusdgement on someone based on how they dress. It’s a very big struggle among us and most people will admit it. But saying u can’t live in crown heights if u don’t fit the standards is the most… Read more »
The question must be asked…why don’t we see this type of dress in Boro Park, Flatbush, Williamsburg or Lakewood?
Because dressing in tznuis way is the social norm in those communities. You would feel weird not too.
In ch no one blinks so people do what they want.
Also in other places your kids won’t have a normal school if you don’t dress up to par
That’s what a taxi driver wanted to know. What can be answered to such questions? How can this be explained in a nice way without talking badly,or blaming anyone? Please, community members, suggest replies..
part of it is, that those from their communities that dress like that move elsewhere or do it away from the community, like on vacay, which doresn’t make it right, but it’s to answer your question to some degree
It definitely is a challenge- but u raise your kids and hope for the best. So they see other kids dressing not to ur standards , so u explain to urs kids that , isnt our standards. U cant control how other ppl dress, in todays generation tznius means something else to everyone! I grew up in a small town, everyone dressed tznius and today I have several sisters who dont… ( and all those sisters are shomer shabbos, keep kosher, talk to their parents) ur kids will eventually each choose their own tznius standards in life. The main point… Read more »
Girls and women who don’t value tznius, do not realize their self- worth. They are a bas HaMelech and bas Chabad. What a holy privilege. Often, they don’t love themselves, and haven’t internalized their worth. It is such an honor to dress tzniuzdik, but it’s a journey each woman must come to.
Well said
If anyone is interested in taking their and their familys tsnius a level higher, a great place to start is this beautiful and highly insightful book
https://www.judaicaplace.com/outside-inside-paperback/9781568713410/
Outside Inside by Gila Manolson
Hope you enjoy as much as I did!
“I am writing to all the parents out there who allow their daughters to walk around like this. Don’t think it only affects your daughters; it affects all their classmates as well.”. Do you really think that a parent who doesn’t outwardly care about how her daughter dresses will care about it affecting others ( although inwardly, every woman cares – that inwardness just needs to be awakened)? Maybe the material or spiritual favor the author can do ( the Hayom Yom for the fifth of Iyar) is in the area of tznius, either befriending others and giving tznius clothes… Read more »
It starts with the moms, with their their long, provocative sheitels, clothing 1/2 size too small, a drop too short…. where do you think these kids get their inspiration from? Add to that the “summer freedom” that gets worse every year and it’s a recipe for disaster. I don’t blame the kids. They have so much peer pressure and girls are mean if you’re the slightest bit more conservative/traditional. 25 years ago my daughter was accused of being “too Chassidish” when I wouldn’t let her go to a sleepover and watch a goyishe movie (parents were away & Bubbie &… Read more »
Been visiting quite a bit over the past year or so and while I’m not judging I’m just surprised. I feel like I didn’t get the memo that standards or Halacha changed chas v’shalom. It seems like CH has really changed over the years, we need the Rebbe back but until then something’s really got to change. There needs to be balance between love and strictness. I don’t know what that specifically can entail outside of homes and schools but it’s vital for there to be a real change on the streets, in stores, shul, everywhere. Between social media, peer… Read more »
Children don’t actually think things through. They just learn from their parents.
Clearly the parent should work on themselves first and then analyze their children.
Exactly!
Why can’t we just all be tzadikim once and for all?!! Then moshiach will finally be able to come!!!