By Menachem S.
Articles don’t reach ‘Top Commented’ list on COLlive.com if they haven’t garnered the attention of the crowd.
And “Tuition is like Torture” did just that.
This is not a response to that Op-Ed. I’m commenting on comment #5 on that Op-Ed which reads as follows:
____
“BIG FAMILY = RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE BIG $$$$$
Part of the Mesiras Nefesh of having a large family is being able to support them…….
Realistically speaking, to provide 8 kids a Chasidishe education, one needs to earn AT LEAST $150,000 (!) above and beyond minimum living expenses !!!!
Go out there and make money!!!!”
____
‘Tuition’ is one hefty topic.
Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Give a man religion and he will starve to death praying for a fish…
I’m kidding.
But the writer of the comment above needs to be taken seriously.
If he or she is taken seriously, this seems to be the reason why our children have been leaning more and more towards a dangerous trend…
Going to university.
Going to university because, “How else am I going to support a family?!”
Yes, it is dangerous.
Yes, the Rebbe was completely against it (besides for rare exceptions of people who got permission from competent Rabbonim, and wanted the Rebbe’s haskoma as well).
Which means that yes, if you do choose to pursue a higher secular education, for whatever reason (without a Rov’s authoritative permission)- you are going against the shitah of the Rebbe.
So, for the big, burning question…
How, pray tell, is one to make a living without numerous college degrees?!
“Don’t Buy The Hype, College Education Is Not An Investment.”
This is the title of a recent Forbes article by George Leef. It goes on to state:
“These days, with the labor market saturated with college graduates, the time and money spent on college is often wasted. What young Americans should think is, “How can I raise my value and demonstrate it?”
(…) College itself isn’t an investment, just one way of increasing your value.”
Do you know how else you can increase your value?
Through doing what the leader of this generation, who happens to be your father- tells you.
So there you have it from a goyishe kopp.
Do you need more proof from the secular world?
In case you do, here’s an excerpt from a report from usnews.com by author Brooke Berger:
“Should Americans keep sending their kids to college?
Sometimes. But they shouldn’t automatically or reflexively send their kids to college. They should pause and stop and think. It’s not like deciding to have breakfast or go to bed. It’s more like, say, to get married. It’s a big decision. [There are] a lot of consequences, a lot of costs, a lot of ups and downs. Investigate it with your eyes open.”
Right.
So think about it.
Marriage changes your life.
So does university.
It’s impossible to be wholly objective of yourself and how you are changing.
You are my sister or my brother. We have a joint mission and the bonds connecting us are unbreakable.
For you- I would do anything that I would do for myself, and more.
Need I say more?
No. But I shall anyways- because I care that you become a well-informed consumer.
“The message that everyone should go to college does a disservice to the 60 percent of students who do not finish their degrees within six years, according to new research from Brookings Center on Children and Families, a non-partisan research center in Washington. These students end up with debt that is not recouped by higher salaries later in life. And for low-income families, the impact is even worse.”
-By Beth Pinsker of ‘Pacific Standard’
And more:
” Investments in higher education may not be paying off for a majority of college graduates. New research has found that just 35 percent of working adults with at least a bachelor’s degree say that most of what they learned in school is applicable to their current career choice.”
-By David Mielach, of ‘Business News Daily’
And even more:
“…. Many people are increasingly doubting the real “dollars and cents” benefit of a college degree, in and of itself. If the desire is simply employability, then a four-year degree has long been recognized as a poor means to that end”
-By Timothy Spangler of ‘The Gaurdian’
I will not judge you.
I will not decide that you need non-Jewish sources to make decisions that will impact your entire future.
But if you do- here they are.
And being that you are a son or daughter of the Rebbe, here’s what your very own father has to say to you:
“We have to put the greatest effort into ensuring that the education of Jewish children should be completely based on taharas hakodesh, not mixing in any chol studies, only when the law does not leave any possibility of not learning chol and only in quantity.”
-Likutei Sichot, vol. 16, p. 145-147
“We would like to learn with the child only these (secular) sciences, but since there is a “Zaidy” or we fear a Jew in New York (the Rebbe alludes to himself), so we teach the child also Torah. Where is the Jewish pride?!”
“We imagine that we will “outsmart” G-d and we will not consider the channels which He gave us in His Torah to succeed but we will search our own channels to learn English etc. through which we imagine we will succeed.”
-Sicha of Simchas Torah 5715
“Learning in college is not merely a matter of learning facts. It means to be exposed to certain circles and activities that are antithetical to the values and faith of the believer. It would be like taking someone from a warm environment and casting him into cold water—“shock treatment”—several times a day. How long would he be able to survive?
In addition to this, the studies in university are set up to be at an age in which one’s personality is not yet sufficiently developed, usually before the age of thirty, and the exposure [to negative influences] then is more dangerous.”
Likkutei Sichos, Vol. 15, pp. 43-44.
See Mishneh Torah, Laws of Idolatry, 2:2, “G–d commanded us not to read … and not to think … so that we not come to ask concerning the method of worshiping it … ” See there further, and ibid. 2:3.
Sometimes, it’s easy to decide on pursuing a higher secular education. At least you can deceive yourself, believing that you are responsibly assuring for yourself financial and career success.
It’s much more difficult to put your full trust in G-d and stay in chinuch until you get married…
But you aren’t going to make a foolish decision, right?
If only because Dad is counting on you…
I’ve never gone to college- it was one of the hardest decisions of my life!
My family and I are doing just fine.
As are many others, Thank G-d. If you look around for people like us, you will see it clearly.
Bitachon means trusting that G-d will take care of you, even (and especially!) if you do exactly what He wants from you.
Your ancestors, surrounded by flames, terror, and destruction, had bitachon.
Your family, your sisters and brothers around the world, who are risking everything to stay connected to Hashem and raise families on shlichus (or in communities!), have bitachon.
You have a neshama that can never be disconnected from Hashem.
And you have a Rebbe, a raayeh meihemnah. (See Maamor Ve’Ata Tetzaveh- Yud Adar Alef, 574)
Allow yourself to trust.
____
Please- even if you wouldn’t for a moment entertain the doubt of going to college yourself, but are acquainted with someone who might consider the notion… help them.
Reach them.
You know Alef, Teach Alef.
good idea (the first one)… needs to be implemented in the educational system.
how about teachers start asking kids these questions from a young age until eventually theyre able to ask the students “what questions can we ask now to better understand this idea” and the kids can come up with the questions and answers themselves…. turn it into a discussion, could even be fun.
are those the facts? or is that just stuff you heard?
where can we look this up?
i just wish you spoke in english
i like your perspective
debating the two options in my head
its a blaming party! can i join?
Are u saying people dont care about their children’s chinuch? Read the hundreds of comments that this topic seems to always cause, and you tell me that the vast majority of Lubavitchers don’t care. Which planet are you living on? But I’ll tell you one thing, IF a parent can afford more and doesnt want to pay more, there is a reason for it and the reason is NOT because they don’t care about their kids… its because they get the message from the school that the SCHOOL doesn’t care about their kids. And that my friend, is the biggest… Read more »
Exactly. Honestly, I believe the administrators know that people don’t like to pay up.They maybe know some people personally who do as you described and figure other people are doing it.
So, the question is, who is being honest?
While it might that might be true, I would venture that there are more poor folks who do NOT go around in fancy cars , etc. Your generalizations lead me to think you might be jealous or bitter about something. Realistically, we are trying to overcome the problems of poverty and its relationship to education. We are also trying to address the implications of a college education vs. maintaining a solely Lubavitche education.
I work with a frum young woman from Flatbush, married with 3 little kids under 5. She herself is a dentist, working a very part time job and hardly making any money. Her husband is in med school, and she and her children hardly see him during the week and sometimes, he is forced to spend Shabbos in a hospital doin rotations.
This poor family has over 300,000 in debt in school loans and still are not making a lot of money.
The same people that complain about tuition are the people that go away for the summer and they live in affordable housing and drive around in nice cars and then they cry about the tuition,
You would be surprised how many frum children will be put in public schools because of these yeshivos closing their doors
I believe that I didn’t use CH as an example (and I would include in the fs & medicaid users many college grads that I personally know in CH), I used Shluchim who are not living the way you describe, but like professionals in every field who raise money like businessmen, startups, politicians and big ceo’s. And they can compete with best and put them to shame. And the most important thing, your argument is with the Rebbe, who vehemently disagrees with your way, even though there are other gedolei yisroel who differ (perhaps even the Rambam). But if you… Read more »
In CH the cry is that we need college to have jobs, but in Willie, are the kids going to college? No, but they ARE still getting jibs and making a nice living. Know why? Because in Willie they TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN, while in CH it is EACH MAN FOR HIMSELF.
Another thing, the mosdos in Willie are doing fine…ours aren’t.
Yep, that’s right, no college, have bitochen, go to OT, and yes, some will make it. You are right. The problem is that those are the exception, not the norm. In most neighborhoods you won’t find 50% of families on food stamps, but here in CH that is exactly what you find. Our poverty level is much closer to that of inner cities where kids are not educated, than it is upscale neighborhoods where most kids finish high school and get a degree. Of course parnassah comes from Hashem. But we still need to create the keli for any brochas.… Read more »
107 and 157. This is the only issue here. Please let’s make a petition to the Rabbanim asking them to bring these people to BD… they need to give a din v’cheshbon, open their books and show transparancy …..or leave their posts immediately. Get everyone you can to sign it.
im no authority, but number 146 please do not send your children to public school.
Everyone should do wants right for them and their family, if you think you should go to college, then go you dont have to answer to anyone but hashem, not all colleges are mixed
Please respond, you brought up amazing points! Do you think you can post fliers around stating your points? I think this will open up everyone s eyes!
I think the Yeshivahs should charge parents by there income, or else they are going to lose some kids to public schools, because some people cant afford to pay what they are asking for,
The Yeshivas who rip off parents 10-15,000 per child as if they were processionals earning 250,000 a year when they provided them with an education that will at best give them a $100,000 salary, that’s criminal. They teach you to have as many children as Hashem will give, they teach you not to go to college, they teach you that someone who doesn’t make it on shlichus or klei koidesh is a loser, but when you come back and present them with a successful product of their chinuch i.e. you’re a good Lubavitcher chosid who followed their teachings, they punish… Read more »
I’m very sorry to inform you (in case you really don’t know) that on the average (there are a few exceptions) those who go to Touro or YU definitaly go down in their commitment to Yidishkeit and for sure their Chasidishkeit, it starts with going to school without the standard hat & jacket and rolls down to changing from a woolen Talsi Koton to a cotton one, then goes the black Yarmulke for a knitted one followed by a little trim of the beard and the tee shirts and jeans followed by no Tzitzis then shorts and no more Mincha… Read more »
Interesting, what #149 has to say! Hmm….it would be interesting to take a poll of the present leadership and or teachers in the educational arm of Chabad to find out what, if any, public education they had in their youth or college years. It would be interesting to ponder how, in general, the public/private school students have fared in comparison to each other. Did the public education experience inhibit their effectiveness in Chabad? Did their solely Chabad educational experience inhibit their ability to function in public endeavors? And so forth.
to 145- rock the house down!!!!
If going to college is trief, then any salary earned as a result of going to college is trief, too. In order to avoid mitzvah habo min aveirah, I’d like to see shluchim, school directors, and all
Had to repost this from #145
Chabad mosod fundraisers, pledge to never take a dime from anyone who earned treifah money by going to college. So no fundraising from doctors, lawyers, MBA’s, and anyone else with a degree. Failure to do so is hypocrisy at its worst.
you fail to recall that the rebbe also did not endorse leaving college once you had already begun it. being that most baalei-batim are not frum, they were likely not privy to the directive of the rebbe not to go to college and therefore if they ever did find out about it, it would be too late to leave.
you said it.
teach people to keep things in proper context and define the terms theyre using within that context. e.g. “I am pursuing goals…” ask why it is valuable to pursue goals and understand which goals should be pursued.
alternatively, settle for a stupid world.
chanah
You are so right.
How about we open a yeshiva gemoro style:
Not by grade but rather by level. One massive room per level, the main teacher sits in front and teaches to 250-500 students, and then there ar e 2-3 assistant teachers who walk around helping and explaining to each student.
Those who fall a level go to the lower level, and those who cannot fit the mold will go to a special smaller class which may cost a bit more.
The entire cost is 4-5 teachers for 500 students! Schar limud would be $1000-2000 per child per year.
I like all the suggestions # 50 has! Good thinking and/or observing! In addition, I have another theory. It could be that some young people have been so sheltered in the Chabad community that they just have too hard a time adjusting in college. Or perhaps their parents have not provided guidance in that area. Some parents are afraid of the “outside” and pass that on to their children. Or perhaps the Chabad education does not embed any preparation for the culture shock which might ensue. ( I think it’s irresponsible if neither family nor teachers do that.) I think… Read more »
i hope your a child posing as an adult. because that is ridiculous. Public school is notorious for only giving the most meager sort of education possible, catering to the lowest class of minds who CANT afford a private school! So if you really and truly want your kids to have the best “secular” education, send them to a catholic private school. but just keep in mind that you will b traumatizing them for life by exposing them to real abuse and completely inappropriate boy-girl situations yes, that’s what catholic schools are notorious for. If you’d like your kids to… Read more »
If going to college is trief, then any salary earned as a result of going to college is trief, too. In order to avoid mitzvah habo min aveirah, I’d like to see shluchim, school directors, and all Chabad mosod fundraisers, pledge to never take a dime from anyone who earned treifah money by going to college. So no fundraising from doctors, lawyers, MBA’s, and anyone else with a degree. Failure to do so is hypocrisy at its worst.
Its very easy for the wealthy (inherited money not earned), to judge those who yes are at this point relying on food stamps etc, but please the yeshiva system is a vicious xycle , why do you think brivka sem recently started offering accredited college credits? Its because they are starting to get it and trying to break the cycle! I have young children at home and yes I am considering public school because I want my children to get an education. Judge me throw stones I don’t give!!! People break the cycle and get your children an education, and… Read more »
If going to college is trief, then any salary earned as a result of going to college is trief, too. In order to avoid mitzvah habo min aveirah, I’d like to see shluchim, school directors, and all Chabad mosod fundraisers, pledge to never take a dime from anyone who earned treifah money by going to college. So no fundraising from doctors, lawyers, MBA’s, and anyone else with a degree. Failure to do so is hypocrisy at its worst.
I can’t agree more with your post, these are money hungry yeshivas that don’t practice what they preech, I went to basis Rivka sem in CH, and the heads gave one of the out of town girls such a hard time because of her visa and threatened to throw her out of the dorm because she was late on payments. One of the other students gave money for her to stay, and brivka heads were in shock! yes shock! because they learnerd what having a heart really means. these schools don’t teach anything valuable!!
Dear Menachem S. Your post is not a response, it’s selective quoting to make your point. And while you found lots of quotes (some taken out of context, others from no-name sources) to make your case, you’re misleading your readers if you are trying to imply that there aren’t as many (or more) quotes that will bolster the opposite position. So, in the interests of providing some balance, here are some facts based on research of the US job market last year (and for the record, facts are different from extracted quotes and thus carry more weight): FACT: Those with… Read more »
Maybe these schools know something. That people actually have money just from their observations and people don’t want to pay up.
Anybody that speaks for Chabad have solutions to the tuition/parnassa crisis? Why don’t we have a decent response from a leader in Chabad, or from the Yeshivahs and schools? You teach us to avoid university. You teach us to have many kids. And then demand a high tuition from people who don’t have that type of money becuase you havn’t given them the skills to earn a decent living. And then you wonder why the community is speaking out?
It all good to demand parents pay tuition. But what about giving young married people the tools to earn a parnassa? Why aren’t there decent chabad institutions that will help the young generation access a well paying career?
Since I have much more experience in addiction than obviously you do,I was merely pointing out that college is not a “cause” of such. There are many reasons ppl become addicted including a predisposition. There are many addicted who never set foot in a college so educate yourself and stop pointing fingers at me! I worked in the field,Did you?I went to college and never once tried drugs.I was there to learn.
That’s nice. But nothing is free. You better believe someone is paying for something.
For the record, I was born & raised FRUM. I was frum in college. I believe I said that in my first post, you really do need to read carefully. I wish I was a Baal Teshuva, I’m still working on it. Are you?
Why should I have more kids just to be hounded by Yeshivahs. The very institutions who failed to give me the tools to provide a large income for the large family they taught I should have.
And then they have the chutzpa to pay more to teachers that have degrees!
Is it any wonder I find myself more and more disillusioned with Judaism in general?
Check again what 8 wrote because seeing that it totally contradicted with 55 and what u write, perhaps you need to relook at the whole thing. 29 was bang on, check him out again but never ever follow 33.. disastrous! 66 music to my ears,,,77 will for sure bring Geula… where was I again……. ?……………
This Summer I was speaking to my teenage daughter and realized that she does NOT know the 13 Ikrim (The 13 principals of Jewish faith) and she goes to a good Crown Heights school and tuition is thousands. I grew up amongst mostly non observant kids and perhaps the 13 Ikrim helped me be clear why am I observant. We made sure to learn the principals and it only took one day to learn them off by heart.
emunah emunah! bitachon bitachon!
yesh elokim baolam!!
trade school sources of the Rebbes wishes in this matter
http://chabadlibrary.org/books/search בית ספר למלאכה
Wether it is the truth or not can be disputed . But to hurt ? Why hurt another jew ? Why inflict pain on someone who is already hurting ? That pain may be intolerable . So let us all try together to o my help o e another and not cause any pain unknowingly and certainly knowingly . You come from a different world I applaud your great efforts and self sacrifice and I’m sur there was much , to become frum and raise a wonderful frum family . May you have only a indent of blessing and reward… Read more »
I see you are not a nasty guy . You simply do not understand the life of a yeshiva boy and what it men’s to enter college from the world they come from . It seems from your post that although you went to college in the 70 you grew up in the not frum world and were a Levi to cope I. That environment so those temptations didn’t affect you .i am maki g those assumptions because I can’t imagine that any bochur would have go e to college in the 70 ‘s . The Rebbe made it quite… Read more »
What would you like to be excused for ??? Where is all this nastiness and …… Coming from ???
The very kind young man who is already fragile is king sharing with us what happened to him .
Why are you judging him and making nasty comments ?
I’m sorry if your life is frustrating but if you are kind and sensative to others you will find your life will become much happier .
Hatzlacha ! Kvct
Btw 68 don’t take Ny notice , you did a very kind deed to many by posting !
Just look at the premium post ad on COL, there is their ad, the link will take you to a flyer and application.
Excuse me!!!!! Stop blaming college for addiction or I’ll show you those who never set foot in there and have drinking and gambling and other addiction problems!!and u have the nerve to blame college-?????wow-talk about ignorance.
Do what you want, when you want, blame everyone else for everything that goes wrong, insist your way is the only way & shoen.
You do it anyway, so you may as well own up to it & be honest.
After several years of negotiations, a dream came into fruition with the signing of an agreement between BTM of Los-Angeles and ORT-College. As there is a critical need for Yeshivos to adequately equip bochurim for marriage – which includes semicha and job-skills — a group of parents decided to actually DO something constructive instead of banging their heads against the wall like most of the comment writers! Students will study towards an associate’s degree in business management in the afternoon, while learning semicha together with chassidus and nigleh in the morning. Classes will be men’s only, and the calendar will… Read more »
that link does not work
number118 u got me rolling on the floor!
p.s you dont have togo to college to make money!
sweet and happy new yyear to all!
If you have some experience fundraising and would like to work commission based please get in touch, we are a small growing moisad/ email resume to btm@smicha.net
I don’t know if anyone is still reading this, but in case someone is – I’d just like to say that my father has a university education, and we grew up extremely poor, yes my mother was home raising the kids ( no hired help!) and she also finished her degree after the kids were older – and they still barely make ends meet, so much for college education- it’s all from Hashem See hayom yom 9 nissan – to paraphrase – Houses and gold are not the jewish riches, – yiddishe reichtum, the jewish everlasting riches is that we… Read more »
Look, my son ain’t Rosh Yeshiva material anyway, so why should he take up space to hang out in yeshiva at a cost of over $1000 plus a month??
Does my daughter really need to know the extra meforshim taught in Seminary at the cost of $1,500 a month plus?
They will do just fine without these “educational opportunities”. Maybe attending a few free farbies to get the chassidish warmth and hang around a chabad house is all they really need.
.
Shluchim say it all the time – those who aen’t on shlichus are farmers. Let’s start a farming colony!
“It’s 19 years since Gimmel Tammuz. I love it when people quote the Rebbe…19 years is a long time. Times have changed, are you privy to the what the Rebbe would say today? Our challenge is to keep the minhagim Chabad, the standards we were raised with (tznius, chinuch etc) & survive in an increasingly difficult situation, not the least of which is being without the Rebbe b’Guf for 19 years. Menachem S, you don’t have any answers; neither do I, but don’t judge a person’s attempt to survive. It may not be your way, or even mine, but it’s… Read more »
k cool
this article has definitely garnered the attention of the crowd!!!
lol i hope someone writes a response #3 :):):)
r u serious?
that sounds just a smidge pathetic, no offense.
can you source that anywhere?
It is difficult to make it in todays world without a college education, thats why half of crown heights is on food stamps and medicaid and wic, when I go shopping at Empire Kosher, almost everyone that pays their bill pays with their food stamps card.
what about the story with the guy who came to one of the rebeiim (if anyone can fill in the details, wud b much appreciated) saying, “you think ur so holy?! ur sitting with chassidim and ttorah all day! u have no temptations! others have it harder, they go to the big city where there are more temptations. and you know what? try to be so frum and all when ur sitting in a movie theatre, and then try to be frum when ur in the front seats, and better yet, why don’t u try being a good jew wehn… Read more »
To #8. I wish all crown heights girls felt the way you do! Kol hakavod.
its good if ppl online are more not good than good and dgood and truth is far outnumbered
it means that the good ppl of this world are not sitting aty computers and screens they are out in the real world making a diff
lichayim, chassidim of the rebbe!!!
But why did it have to take untill number 99 for someone to figure out the most logical solution without having to compromise at all!!!
hey 99:
u ttly make sense.
i agree
BE FUNDRAISERS, ALL U KVETCHIES!!!!!
im confused- what r we talking about? tuition or college or parnassah? u know what?! the world revolves around confusion. period. think bout it: what do u actually know? pretty much nothing. neither do i 🙂 so we do our best with our limited knowledge, limited life experience and even more limited viewpoints of the world and the opinions we have formulated over the course of our lives with the resources given to us… so actually, nvr mind. the world revolves arounf G-d. thats pretty much it. well maybe not… maybe it revolves around moshiach but it definitely doesnt revolve… Read more »
We need more Jewish Trade Schools
the rebbe wants Jewish Trade Schools
Your husband did right. the system is wrong. schools must accept all our kids, even for free. yes free. why? because thats the only financial educational model that will ever work for a community with the rebbes values. :Tomchei” means supporters.(the school itself supports) “Temmimim” means students of the rebbes derech. Gedoley Isroel ALWAYS did the main fund raising. True Mosdos Torah always did and forever will survive and thrive only because of great Rabonim and leaders who did the main fundraising with messiras nefesh. Overburdening parents will only have negative and disastrous effects on the jewish home, child and… Read more »
I hear you but I must say two things. 1. Sometimes the truth hurts. 2. Sometimes, it needs to be said in plain English.
If you read what I wrote, I never said anything negative about what he’s doing. On the contrary I applaud #68 for his efforts & determination, but like I said, blaming other people or institutions is not going to help him. He had choices & he made bad ones. No one tied him down & force fed him pot. Isn’t that we learn in Chassidus…free will?
All the best!
People need to take “heed” to your last sentence. Thank you.
when you say to someone, “stop judging (that other person)”
ur in fact, judging THEM that they are judging!!!
so yeah, ppl
plz don’t tell anyone to stop judging… if u don’twant to, thats ur businees but ny telling othes that, ur judging that they ar judging, and u don’t want us to judge u as a hypocrite, right?
I can’t believe some of the comments here. People do what they need to do to survoive. You make enough money to pay tuition for your 10 kids without college? Good on you! You’re not making enough? Well, what are your options? You can have fewer children. You can try to find a higher paying job (good luck). Or you can learn a profession and earn a higher salary. It’s another option. It may not work for everyone, just like going into business doesn’t work for everyone. Let’s face it, we all have different skills and abilities and shlichus. What… Read more »
I went to COPE and now have a job that allow me to actually pay the tuitions for my children. No, I am not rich, but I make a comfortable living without Food Stamps, Medicaid or Section 8.
I am grateful to COPE and they even have a Chabad Progam Director who is a helpful liaison working for them and teaching the courses.
Hats off to Agudah`s COPE – they are the shluchim for my parnassa.
i would also add that there are plenty of vocational/trade schools that would be far more effective for than a regular college degree. Also there is so much information you can learn from library books and from the internet and youtube videos for free these days its insane. there are so many professions and trades you can learn for free that don’t require college. just going to college is not going to get you anything unless you have a plan. also, as far as tuition goes, people need to consider homeschooling. “my kids gonna be socially awkward, have no friends,… Read more »
You make excellent points! Your comment should be submitted as an article so it doesn’t get lost in the crowd!
It seems there are MANY people who have jobs that aren’t paying enough for them, to support their families. It also seems that MANY people believe that there should be more fundraisers for the mosdos chinuch. It seems that MANY people believe that being a fundraiser is a “cushy” job that provides abundant income. So let’s solve the problems! Sure, being a fundraiser is not for everyone. But from all the people out there who would love a better job, surely SOME of them are ‘shayach’ to fundraising. If they become fundraisers: (A) They’ll have a great source of income;… Read more »
no u missed out the one critical point – use the blanket ( knitted urself from recycled yarn) instead of central heating and never buy an air con but instead blow air in ur kids faces . Then u will surely be able to pay tuition for ur 10 kids!
Dear Menachem, so where did you learned how to write in English?
Wo wo wo !! I’m glad your pleased with you life , but that is no reason to bash a nice , kind boy who already said he is down and out . And id kind enough to still try to help others .A bit of sensitivity would be nice especially from someone so senior ( almost retired )
I’m sur eyou didn’t realise how harsh and your comment sounded .
Hatzlacha and brocha to you all !!!
Kvct
You are so sweet ! That is soo soo nice cQof you to take the time
To help and warn others that they shouldn’t fall as you did !!
In the zechus of helping others may Hashem bless you ad bli dai , and mAy you quickly have a good, healthy chasidish ,productive life .
Btw ignore that nasty negative comment . They just don’t understand how a truly good Idel bochur can’t function there
Hatzlacha ! Beau row toivos
COPE by Agudas Yisroel has the answer (at least for some – there is no “one size fita all” solution, but this fits many/most). They train many men and women to get careers quickly, cheaply (compared to colleges or other institutes such as Touro etc) and it works! Classes in BoroPark, separate, frum staff and geared to us. Many of my friends and relatives (BOTH men and women) are now making a very nice parnassa thanks to COPE of Agudas Yisroel. The litvishe, yeshivishe and poilishe are doing COPE. Some, but not enough, of our community are also doing it.… Read more »
Plz do NOT write that article.
PURE LOSHON HARA ABOUT GOOD PEOPLE.
the author obviously used the comment as a catalyst fir this discussion.
thats it- so dont critisize b4 u read every word closely
When there are not enough shlichus positions to go around we have no choice but to find another job. Having a traditional lubavitch education we have very few options most of which does not support a large family with tuition needs. How do we fins the money to pay? When many lubavitch families are using wic, food stamps, Medicaid, etc just to survive. Where do we say get the money to pay for tuition? Are you implying those of us struggling just need to have more faith? I find your words to be condescending, hurtful, and not helpful in any… Read more »
Often times I feel like I did an aveira by securing a parnassah instead of having the foresight to go to yeshiva when I was age twenty. I grew up in a city where nobody was frum. It seems it is the way of the frum world to marry young, before anybody has a parnassah secured. As bitter as I might be about being older, single, and not able to get a shidduch; it does make sense to me that everyone marries very young. I wish I could go back in time, and did not go to college, but could… Read more »
Are the schools in CH community schools? And therefore is it the responsibility of the entire community to make sure they stay open? Or are they a private affair run by the select few t use as their own pigi-bank?
Hope I was your teacher, your sister or your friend…and if not I can hire you to be my attorney! Sounds like you are quite educated. Just keep in mind: mazel gets you farther than education. If it is a persons destiny to go to college, grad school or farther, they will go & suceed. Unfortunatley you are all somewhat right. This is not a community decision. It is as personal as someone who “chooses” to have a family with 8 children (which again is not at all a choice)! There are many things that are out of our control.… Read more »
well said #5!
instead of talking and bringing your frustration on others have bitachon and work hard,be creative do something and if u work like a dog then all is left for hashem to give u his bracha and u can only relax and be happy with what he gave u this year.
hashem has an amount he will give u for ur parnasa each year and u canot change it. work hard and learn torah thats all u gotta do! what ever comes is what u get. be happy ..and like mr brainwash puts it ..Life is Beautiful!
u missed out one critical point – use a blanket ( knitted urself from recycled yarn) instead of central heating and never buy an air con but instead blow air in ur kids faces . Then u will surely be able to pay tuition for ur 10 kids!
There are many jobs out there but they all want ppl with degrees and certs. Even Jewish-Lubav companies like the daily deal sites they will not hire lubavs now because “they want to be professional now”, go on their website, try applying for a job and good luck! If every lubav company can find a way to squeeze in another employee or 2 (for decent salary) this would give alot more opportunities. How about instead of them buying another lexus they use that money towards another lubav salary? We need to take care of our fellow chassidim. Instead of making… Read more »
the biggest cost and financial strain on our families is the tuition costs, so what many of the commenters are saying is that if you cannot afford tuition then do not have more kids. It seems silly that because of schar limud we shud stop having kids. I think the solution is that the schools should get creative and hire fundraisers and lean heavily on the well to do and then schar limud will be affordable and then we wont have the issues of going against the rebbe and going to college, and we wont have the need for small… Read more »
The rebbe instilled in us an entrepreneurial mindset, (every Shliach is a entreprenuar) so along with the directive not to go to college, he empowered us to make a living through non traditional methods.
Please write that Op-Ed, Many would be interested in hearing more.
Ok Bais Rivkah . Oholie menachem (yeledvYalda) Hire me without a degree!!!!!!!!
Back in the 70’s, when the college drug scene was open & accessible, we were both students….frum, by the way. We never took any drugs or smoked, we worked hard, got our degrees and started our professional lives. We were inroduced and got married. Don’t use college as a cop-out, you were weak, immature & gullible like most kids. Kol Hakovod for working so hard & you seem to be very focused on getting clean and staying that way, but please don’t blame your father or college. The first step of your recovery should be to take personal responsibility –… Read more »
Correction to #77: email address is brainstorm613A@gmail.com
Where, exactly, does the original comment say “go to university”? That is the author’s interpretation of the comment. Making money doesn’t stem from a university education in today’s world. It comes from sheer grit, creativity, and a sound business head. As for the tuition problem, there are a few choices: 1. Limit the number of children you have. 2. Beg or borrow from family (if you can). 3. Limit the food you feed your family & your overall living expenses (which is never enough) 4. Cut out unnecessary items like health insurance, orthodontics & shoes that fit. 5. Work 2… Read more »
Can #3 contact us? #3 said “…it’s not about college. It’s about choices and goals” – this view is big-picture, enlightened and realistic – and it’s not inconsistent with the views of the Rebbe. The issue is too complex to express clearly the problems and solutions in an adequate way. My husband is a highly qualified professional who works a full 6-day week to provide for our large family (ka”h and BH for the brochas of big Lubavitch families). If #3 (or anyone else) would contact us at the email address brainstorm613@gmail.com (or post here on Collive.com) we would love… Read more »
I read the comments here, not blaming anyone for their frustrations and worries. The article is head on, correct, I have done both, been through the Yeshivah system, and some college. after 6 months I stopped. WHY? very simply, I found a good job as a “assistant warehouse manager” with Sachel, commen sense, honor and trust, i grew to be the head warehouse manager, making a nice income, no official schooling (deplomas) I found after many years in a major company the following many (not all) company big and small, honestly dont care how many certificated and or diplomas you… Read more »
I learned a great deal at touro college. Interestingly, when I went it was looked down upon by general anash and effected my shidduchim because at the time ‘es pas nisht’. My husband never went to college and I so I am an equal breadwinner even though I work part time. I learned a great deal from the litvish girls that were there. I was always attracted to the very frum girls and was amazed by their yiras shomayim. Sadly, I live in a community with many Shluchim and I would have to say that many of the Shluchim have… Read more »
https://staging.collive.com/files/0.41918151815_1428570.pdf
LA’s ‘best kept secret’…spread the word, this breaking new program was established as a tangible answer to this huge challenge of obtaining college education in an appropriate environment, while studying Smicha and Chassidus at that!!!
see COL article: https://staging.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=26368&alias=semicha-college-launches-in-la for a PERFECT practical cutting edge solution!!!
#16 BRAVO, WELL SAID.
BUT IF DEGREES IS NOT AN OPTION, THE BEIS DIN NEED TO ISSUE A KOL KORAH THAT FIXES FEES AT SCHOOLS/YESHIVAHS/SEMINARY AT A RATE PARENTS CAN AFFORD AND IN TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN AND THE INCOME OF THE FAMILY (PROVIDED PROOF FOR THE LATTER IS PROVIDED)
In America, there is not much difference any more. In Europe, and it used to be here, college was a lower level of learning. University was the best. Nowadays, it’s all the same.
Some people should go to college and some shouldn’t. Besides, there is online school, live on campus, off campus classes, specific trade degrees, General degrees, going to college prior to marriage, after marriage… each situation requires individual decision making and consulting with a rav/mashpia.
He quotes part of an ‘Op-Ed’ from Forbes, and completely out of context!
andwreck ur life this is too true- from experience. im 27 and now smoke pot. im trying to get off it… doing a program. ive always been a good kid… college turned me upsidedown, inside out and whats rly sad: i didnt even wanna go. my father did want me to go, because he wanted me to do more with mylife than learn in 770… and look where it got me… my only hope is to raise kids oneday and b able to tell them proudly that their father has ovecome one of lifes greatest challenges- addiction. and to teach… Read more »
Please go out there and speak to our children.
We need people like you to be around and-literally- just help.
Writing is great but we need SPEAKERS and DOERS.
Can you please do or better yet- teach others so that more chassidishe educators can DO?!
We.
Cannot.
Understand.
G-d’s.
Ways.
We.
Just.
Gotta.
Do.
Our.
Best.
With.
The.
Tools.
He.
Gives.
Us.
(that was fun :))
if u think about what ur saying… who are you? no like seriously, what do u want out of life? it seems that u are a teenager or have the mindset of one at least. do u rlyy believe that theres a mold?! thats against everything u were ever taught if u got a decent chinuch, and if u havent, like others have said- educate urself!! not college!! learn!!! we are CHABAD for cryin’ out loud!! why did nobody menton yet that EDUCATION DAY is EVERY YR on the REBBES birthday!!! he was ACKNOWLEDGED publicly, and continues to b, every… Read more »
I am hearing more and more, parents wanting a %10 benchmark for total tuition. The system as it is now is per child, or in other words a child penalty. This is by far the worst way to set tuition rates. Oh and yes if your 10 percent is more than full tuition, you pay the larger number.
dude, rock on
can u write more op-eds? you’ve got style, man!
A must read for anyone who has or is anticipating or has had tirdos biparnasash
(hardships making a living)
“lubavitchers believe that we accept everyone. ahavas yisroel is number one”
…always thought that was true but am not so sure anymore…
If anyone’s a coward… Sorry to say this, but you sound like one. When the whole world is crashing, or when you have a gun to your head, your still a yid and won’t bow to the idol. Right? Stop quoting incorrectly. Christianity quotes Torah as well- from the source! sources mean NOTHING! (In fact, check Rashi on Naaseh Adam, perek alef beraishis.) The fact that OTHER PPL are not following the Rebbe’s hora’os doesn’t justify your uncertainties. JUst like the whole world mocks your frumkeit- even your chabadlite neigbors in ch- (IN THE SHCHUNA!) but you stand firm and… Read more »
I have spoken to numerous mashpi’im on the topic. The Rebbe was not against college. Rather, he didn’t want those not yet stable in a spiritually dangerous environment. Once married and hence more stable, the Rebbe was not against it.
#3: well said.
teach a man to fish: Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. Teach a man to create an artificial shortage of fish and he will eat steak. Teach a man to fish, and though he’s fed for life, he’ll call you a miser for not giving him your fish. Give a man a fish, he owes you one fish. Teach a man to fish, you give up your monopoly on fisheries. Teach a man to fish, and you can sell him a ton of accessories. Teach a man to fish and you’ve fed him for… Read more »
the terms are used interchangeably
but sometimes university is for more intense programs or geared to higher professions vs “community college” is usually lesswork, not as intense program, and not looked up to so much.
so if university is bad, ur totally screwed up with college, beingthat its hardly recognized by the nonjews as well.
but get ur head bac in the gemara, kiddo.
its way better for u
ull see that eventually
and hopefully now
the Rebbe told us exactly what needs to get done to bring Moshich, live in peace, and train ourselves to have a geula mindset… what more do you want?!
whatmore can’t you understand?!
53.
smart person.
why doesnt anyone pick up on the fact that this article clearly has nothing to do with the one it is officially in response to?
😉
the writer cleverly employed profesh marketing and writing skills to grab the readers interest.
This is quite brilliant…
Menachem S, I have no idea who you are, but if I am correct, can I please have your business info?
I’m looking for a skilled marketer.
oh and jbtw, my business is bh doing ok without any college degree 🙂
this article wasn’t saying “don’t go to college”, it was saying think twice before going. 40% of college students never graduate. of those that do, how many find a job in their chosen field? He was saying if you think that by getting a liberal arts degree, you are going to be better off, you’re wrong. many people go to college because its “the thing to do” or because friends are going, or because statistics of college degrees and incomes are shoved down their throat all day. College is NOT for everyone. if you have a plan, if you know… Read more »
I don’t believe you are a lubavitcher being that in every lubob’s head, men are titled with “Rabbi” not “Mr.” this is a LUBAVITCHER website. so if u have something nice to add, u are more than welcome to add it. if u are here to bash our belief system- the JEWISH belief system, get yourself outa here. I’m just saying the viewpoint of any other community besides for lubavitch. lubavitchers believe that we accept everyone. ahavas yisroel is number one. the modern orthodox, reform movement, conservative movement, non religious ppl, aithiests, christians of all types, muslims of all types,… Read more »
Because everything is at a standstill.
Here are some tips for engaged couples, newly-weds, and families with 1-3 small children: 1) Do not register for dishes, appliances, linens, etc. Ask for cash gifts that you can put in the bank, earn a little interest in a CD, and have a small financial cushion as you are just starting out. 2) Mothers and fathers should education themselves about the health and cost benefits of breastfeeding vs formula. You will save a small fortune by not buying formula, and your baby will be more physically and emotionally healthy as a result. 3) Children under age 5 do not… Read more »
Leviticus 19:11, Leviticus 19:13
I sincerely hope the Mechanchos in the Girls’ Schools of CH read this article and look up the sources of everything written here and show ’em to their students.
CH needs help with their teens.
Why do they ALL Wanna go to college?
תורת מנחם (חל”א ע’ 54): גם לשיטתם עליהם לדעת שברובא דרובא לא מתפרנסים בפועל מהמקצוע שלמדו בגיל שבין עשר לעשרים שנה כך שחבל על הזמן שמקדישים לכך.
I’m a bochur…
Can someone plz explain the diff btwn the two?
not that I wanna go or anything, I’m just curious
39- you said it all.
Beautiful.
תורת מנחם חכ”ז (ע’ 103-104): אמנם אף שמצד גודל האחריות שבדבר בודאי שאף אחד מישראל לא יעשה זאת בשום אופן הרי היצה”ר הוא ערמומי (“א קלוגינקער”) ובא בתחבולה ומתלבש באיצטלא של משי” (“א זיידענע זשופיצע”), ומדבר בסגנון של תנאים ואמוראים בהזכירו מאמר רז”ל “כל שאינו מלמד את בנו אומנות כאילו מלמדו ליסטות”, ועוד מאמרי רז”ל כיו”ב, ועי”ז רוצה לשדל אותו שצריך ללמד את הילדים לימודי חול כדי להבטיח להם “תכלית”. ובכן צריכים לדעת שרבותינו נשיאינו הבהירו זאת מקודם לכן: הרביים הזהירו שכאשר יבוא מישהו ויטען שצריכים לחשוב אודות התכלית של הילדים ולכן צריכים ללמוד עמהם לימודי חול – אזי אין… Read more »
why all the hype??
If you pro-college ppl are so right, why not just go ahead and do your thing?
who the blank cares about what these chassidishy ppl think?
I’ll tell you why you care:
It bothers u.
hahaha.
:):):)
I hope I was never your teacher, sister, shlucha, or friend. If I was, I did a terrible job at being a teacher, sister, shlucha or friend. You obviously have never been exposed to the proper values of life because you sound pretty intelligent. So you’d have chosen the right path if only you were taught… Hey… Brainstorm! WHY DON’T YOU LEARN WHAT LIFE IS ABOUT?! and btw, crown heights has major issues. but thanks to the rebbes system of shlichus, we are not only located in CH. A HUGE PERCENTAGE OF LUBAVITCHERS LIVE OUTSIDE OF THE “SHCHUNA.” I’m talking… Read more »
…if we are successful in our Lubavitch schools, we leave with excellent Torah learning and little secular skills. Why then are the very schools we graduate from not committed to support the very lifestyles they preach? We are products of your education, we are satisfied with the simple meaningful lives YOU taught us to live, why demand tuition from salaries you never prepared us to earn?
lolz agree 🙂
I think that the Rebbe of Lubavitch is pretty credible.
and if it’s not enough for u- why don’t u look up the sources in this article for yourself (in likutei sichos and igeres hakodesh)
huh???
or are u just looking for excuses
to EXCUSE yourself for doing what U want and not what u know u SHOULD want.
like it says- WHERES THE JEWISH PRIDE???
WHY ARE YOU GIVING IN TO THE AVODAH ZARA OF TODAY’S GENERATION?!?!
the article has a friggin point!
cant anyoe read btwn the lines and take out what they were meant to, anymore?!
what r we- in the 70s where everyone has to be all free spirited and do their own thing diff from the religion they were raised in, and diff from their communities?!
messed up, ppl!!
He quotes Forbes.
Do you know of a more credible source of info about making it big?!
Can you say herd mentality. What do you propose?
With the way you write, I don’t believe you have a bachelor’s degree.
If you’re going to say college is bad, then say it’s because the Rebbe said so. Don’t bring you skewed information, and the ten negative articles you found about college as proof.I can find ten articles of people saying that gold will be selling at under a dollar an ounce in 5 years; it doesn’t make it true. The statistics don’t lie graduates (aside from idiots who take libral arts, or don’t choose a mojor) make nearly 40% more than your average high school graduate (which most of you aren’t either). I get it. College isn’t what the Rebbe wanted.… Read more »
This is so inspiring to read. I always wondered where the source is of this that the Rebbes Shita is that people should not be going to college.
The past few days i have been talking to people who have their degrees and they are all struggling to pay up their debt. That is enough of a reason for me to think twice before going for a degree besides that I would be doing what the Rebbe wants.
Thank you for sharing!
I side with #6, #8, and #22.
The fact is I cannot supports family. After the basic costs of housing. food and clothing, there isn’t much left. Schools simply tell you come up with the money or go elsewhere, or the wonderful advice to go out and fundraise.
hon, you have made an unbelievable amount of assumptions that may or may not be correct. you assume that the writer did not write his name because he is a coward. you assume that he is among the group of “people like you who have 8 children… etc”. and most disappointingly, you assume that a college education is a valuable goal. just because something is socially promoted doesnt make it valuable. consider the fact that perhaps those who dont go to college are the ones who have it straight, the ones who realize that time not spent pursuing their goals… Read more »
I wholly agree with you about establishing direction for our children . As a parent, I firmly believe that we must find the potential in each child, see what they gravitate towards, in which areas they have greater interest and cultivate those potentials. However, I do agree with the writer (and understood this to be his point – in general) that we should be very cautious with directing our children AS A WHOLE towards college. I must say that I’m totally impressed by your great connection and firm dedication to your roots HOWEVER, this is not the case and outcome… Read more »
think the whole seminary thing is :/
that when the |Rebbe spoke against family planning, he called |Rabbi Weinberg olov hasholom and told him , to the effect of, “since families are going to be bigger now , they might have a hard time paying tuition, start collecting”
MEANING, it is not the achrayos of the parents alone that your children should be able to attend/afford lubavitch yeshivos. the Rebbe implied that families gotta be helped by a fundraiser!!!!
I don’t want to discourage anybody, but I am laughing about the 150K a year for a family with 8 kids .I dunno if 200K is enough There is not a general rule One advice is to try very hard when you are young, take some risks, try to start many business, try and error, until you find a niche don’t get a job that is not going to allow you to grow/and or learn to become independent You have a few years to try hard until the family grows if you don’t succeed , learn and prepare yourself to… Read more »
You tell us not to go to college. You tell us what we shouldn’t do. But G-d does not want us relying on miracles. So please finish up your article and tell your readers what alternate methods we are supposed to use!! Some people got lucky, like you, but for the most part we are still left uncertain as to which choice to make and which path to take. I greatly respect and appreciate your article. It has enlightened me and made me more aware of the current situations. But I feel that we are all still left with questions… Read more »
Besides for the tuition problem, the childrwn are pushed toward university because of the yeshivas closing there doors on anyi ne who doesn’t “play their game” or fot perfectly into their mold. Unfortunately manyreally good kids are left out and end up in colleges and universities. Shame on al the yeshivas for not accepting boys that are not “perfect” or have money or a name!! That’s not what the rebbe wanted either!!
to say that everyone can start a business themselves is unrealistic. not everyone has the “kop” to achieve this. It depends on their personality and their motivations, etc. There are all types of people and some need to work for someone and with a degree you can make more per hour. (in most cases) Interesting that the Rebbe said after 30 is different. Isn’t it also different before and after marriage? Didn’t the Rebbe approve many times of those attaining degrees who were already married?
I agree with every word.
My husband got a lubavitch education, went through the system. He came from a family where he was told, “if you have bitachon, Hashem will provide” he did all that. never cared to get a higher education, was discouraged by his family to do more than “have bitachon” So he never did. Now 10 kids later, he deeply regrets not getting more of an education because we cannot pay tuition, and we were told to register our children in another moisad. So he listened to the Rebbe and did not go to college, we listened to the Rebbe and made… Read more »
This is a personal decision that should be between each individual’s Mashpia/Rov and themselves. Blanket advice is unhelpful. Especially without a name attached for credibility.
Please proofread what you type.
I’ve already done that… by going to college.
It took me until age 32 to figure that out. Until then I tried those million other ways, didn’t work for me.
But if it’s working for you, kol hakovod. Now share some of those tips with others how to stay on the holy righteous path and still pay tuition for your 10 children. We’re waiting.
You can go to university if you are able to handle yourself
it seems to me that you dont really believe in the Rebbes words untill you got practical that makes sense in your mind. isnt that what the Rebbe uis saying? we believe in a higher force that works. not judging others but when reflecting on one self, practical suggestions that ive seen the Rebbe writing numerous times in letters, 1) adding in tzedaka. yes. davka when it seems you dont have to give, is when the Rebbe writes, is proof that its time to add. (sometimes its just a reminder that we missed basic tzedaka like ma’aser etc.. “aser bishvil… Read more »
WELL, WE WILL REMEMBER TO HAVE BITOCHON WHEN THE YESHIVA ADMIN OFFICE OR THE MENAHEL MARCHES INTO ZAL OR SHIUR OR DORM AND TELLS A KID GO OUT OR MARCHED OUT BECAUSE THE PARENTS COULDN’T PAY THE “EXTORTIONATE MORTGAGE ” SECHAR LIMUD FEES!!! THE “GUN TO YOUR HEAD PAY OUR CRAZY FEES OR WE WON’T ACCEPT YOUR CHILD” DIDN’T EXIST WHEN THE REBBE ADVOCATED HIS OPPOSITION TO DEGREES.. AND TODAY THERE ARE FRUM SEGREGATED COURSES IN A FRUM ENVIRONMENT. ITS A BIT RICH WHEN THESE ZEIDES FROM NEVEL ZEIDES WHO PAID ZILCH FOR THEIR KIDS CHINUCH NOW FEEL THEIR MISSION… Read more »
we don’t need articles…we can read….we need to figure out to pay $100,000 per year to send our children to yeshivas…
in a world where many parents don’t even earn that much PER YEAR
In the article: “We imagine that we will “outsmart” G-d and we will not consider the channels which He gave us in His Torah to succeed but we will search our own channels to learn English etc. through which we imagine we will succeed.”
Thanks for taking your time to write. Very refreshing to read your article.
#1 — I think the author was pretty clear that he’s writing about a specific idea, I.e. Going to college. He wasn’t writing about what or where should your income be. That’s for another COLlive article.
Groise gevirim in Chabad/satmar/other groups have made it big and NOT cuz excersizing secular studies.
Hatzlocha
Sorry but YU and Touro are very mindful of the frum student body they are teaching and they aren’t dangerous because they are sensitive to the klal. You are way back in time.But you sure like going to frum doctors you can trust.You sure feel more comfortable with a frum psychologist or lawyer.You sure like an environment where educators are mindful of Halocho, don’t you? Stop with the exaggerations and drama here because many of the YU kids and Touro kids are wonderful frum individuals who consider Torah a main part of their lives.So stop already!
this op-ed is fine and dandy and i agree that college degrees are not the be-all and end-all, but the writer says he is writing this in response to comment #5. However, WHERE EXACTLY in comment #5 does it say ANYTHING about going to college? it says to go out and MAKE MONEY! What does that have to do with college?
#5 is exactly right. Stop complaining and do whatever YOU can to support your family.
Unfortunately, you have spoken without actually understanding the articles you quoted from.
The kids who go to college to get general (or sometimes unnecessary) degrees, like “liberal arts” or business degrees are the ones that those articles like Forbes are referring to.
The kids who go with a very specific trade in mind, such as MD, PA, CPA, etc.. almost always end up with a very comfortable Parnassah.
Do you know of any Doctors, OB/GYN’s, Dentists, that are struggling to make ends meet?
Drey nisht kein kop please.
how in the world did someone research all that for one article on col which i assume they are not getting paid for?!?!
Here’s another quote.. “Nishtanu ha’ittim” the times have changed. When the administrators of the yeshivos and girls schools those entrusted to teach out children have forgotten what the rebbe wanted, how are we expected as parents who live practically expected to live? What do you think the rebbe would say to the admins of OT or BR if he were here “beaynei muchash” of he heard the way try treat the parents? So please don’t “hack” me with rebbe this and rebbe that when our own educators could car less what the said.
there are a million different ways.
if u cant think of anything, you dont WANT to.
plz get smart for your own good
didnt think my comment would garner the attention of the crowd to that extent 😉
If people would just be creative they can make money:
Start slow and just grow:
If u have extra money then buy some food and sell it to someone else, and then with the profit u can buy a case of food at wholesale and then u can buy a few cases and then u can open a store and accept food stamps and then u can open another store and then more and more..
It all starts with $5
Cant wait to show this to my students!!!
Why don’t you post your name? Stand by your glorious piece of research? College is NOT for everyone. But we live in a terrible economy! It is likely people like you, with eight children and no college degree, who only have a “religious marriage” and register your wife as a single mother so you can get medicaid, WIC and all that garbage on the tax dollars of people like me who worked their tail off for Ivy League graduate degrees before we even dreamt of supporting big families and paying tuition. I know what you must be thinking now –… Read more »
So what pret tell should a person do if is doing all he can to support his family and ( he didn’t go to collage, he and his wife work full time ) there just isn’t enough! I’m talking about the average family don’t own a house or a car, don’t take fancy vacations I he doesn’t have money to pay tuition then what his kids don’t get to go to yeshivas ?
Practical suggestions please?
Career/vocational paths?
REAL, concrete advice on how to earn the kind of income that allows you to pay tuition for 8+ children?
Not just quote mining for effectiveness.
thank you.