By COLlive reporter
As tens of thousands begin to mark Gimmel Tammuz, a rabbi from Jerusalem presented a sketch for a design of a separation between men and women at the Rebbe’s Ohel.
Noted lecturer and teacher Rabbi Yechezkel Soffer commissioned the simulation as part of his personal campaign to have a mechitza built in the resting place in Old Montefiore cemetery in Cambria Heights, Queens.
The drawing he provided our Hebrew sister-site COL.org.il shows how a permanent divider would stand behind the Rebbe’s and the Friediker Rebbe’s grave stones, giving women half of the space and men the remaining half.
After entering the vestibule of the stone tomb, men and women will enter separately through the second doors, as designated today, but will not have access to the other side once they have entered.
Chabad’s presence around the cemetery has developed gradually since 1994. The Ohel Chabad Lubavitch house on Francis Lewis Blvd is open 24 hours with sleeping accommodations available in adjacent homes. 2 Mikvahs are available in walking distance and a Cheder operates there as well.
On Gimmel Tammuz – this year expecting 50,000 people according to NY1 – separation between men and women in the preparation area, waiting lines and during the short stay at the Ohel itself is a standard kept in recent years.
Rabbi Soffer is calling for tznius – modesty to be enforced, or at least be available, year-round, and has lobbied Chabad rabbis to send letters to Agudas Chassidei Chabad International (Aguch), which oversees the Rebbes’ Ohel and the Ohel house.
He makes a point to praise the efforts of Rabbi Abraham Shemtov, chair of Aguch, and Rabbi Aba Refson, Director of Ohel Chabad Lubavitch, during Gimmel Tammuz.
“Thanks to their efforts the public can daven at the gates of heaven in an orderly fashion and with utmost tznius,” Soffer says, but notes that “in every public holy site – the Kotel, in Rashbi’s kever in Miron and of course in all shuls – there is separation between men and women (year-round).”
Lubavitch has always been strict about the laws of modesty, all while remaining tolerant towards others who are not, in an effort to engage them with Torah and Mitzvos in a welcoming way.
There are no statistics available, but a large amount of the Ohel’s Jewish visitors who come from around the world in organized groups or on their own are not observant.
if the women would dress more in a tznius way maybe the idea would not have had been raised… and if the avoda was only on men to do “iskafya” and ” shmiras haeynayim”then hashem wouldn,t have given the mitzva of tznius to women…
why dont we worry more the way girls and women walk around the streets.
when I go to my Rebbe, I don’t want barriers. Please. Can be plenty tzniusdik with a divider bet. men and women. And the women can still feel like they are having their yichidus with the Rebbe as apposed to communicating from behind prison bars.
Don’t cut me off from my Tatteh.
put in one way glass so the man cant see the women, but the women can still see, and have small slots along the inside for women to put their letters in. why all the fuss? if something is obviously not working out, it will be fixed, we just need to deal with it properly not argue like a bunch of children!!
I like the idea of fixing the Mechitza by the Ohel as I’ve had problems when saying what I needed to, women crossed over the chain curtain mechitza there now and went into the men’s side. Personally, this made me feel very uncomfortable and definately violated tznius standards. While I agree a new mechitza should be erected, it SHOULD NOT be one that cuts views of the headstones and disables women from putting their pidyons in. This style could be done, but with just two fences dividing the space in half and remove the pictured walls that seem to go… Read more »
I believe a great solution would be to build a balcony around the outer wall of the Ohel from the outside; this would solve many problems .
Yitzchok Teitelbaum
Miami Beach, FL
P.S. The above design from the rabbi in Israel creates more problems because there is no place as it is without the mechitzah.
I believe a great solution would be to build a balcony around the outer wall of the Ohel . this would solve many problem.
now that the ohel gets so many visitors. Kind of like you dont need a mechitza at a family gathering, but once it becomes a public event a mechitza is appropriate. I like the idea. I think it should be designed really beautifully, and that the women also get to see the matzeivas, not just the men, because that could be really offensive to some people.
Lets just put it up for a vote amongst the shluchim & Rabbonim world wide!
I think it’s a great idea, but the Mechitza with the tiny slits should surround the men.
i have seen in a shul, that has a cloth screen that allows women to see everything on the other side and men, on the other hand, cant see anything on the other side when the sun shines at the cloth. Those saying this is not a concern and the rabbi doesnt know what he’s talking about – we dont need your opinions in the lubavitcher enviroment. You sound frighteningly close to Amalek, cooling off everyones enthusiasm for bettering ourselves in something called Tnius, seperation of men and women. A little history education: When 770 was being built (the Womans… Read more »
Disgusting.
Some people think that the more you are like Williamsburg, the “frumer” you are. That was NOT the Rebbe’s idea of frum. But nobody cares about what the Rebbe’s values really were. They just want to ram their own hang-ups down our throats and claim that its “yiddishkeit”
What about families??
All these ideas are crazy
Achieves the best of both options:
Have separate time slots for men & women (say, EVEN hrs, 2, 4, 6pm etc. for women & ODD hrs, 1, 3, 5pm etc. for men, to keep things simple.)
AND
Keep the half-half mechitza idea (whatever the design / material – I would personally prefer one-way glass over the shutters idea).
So, in this way…
1. Each gender will just switch sides at every time slot switch – but will never lose complete access…and…
2. No particular gender will have the “better” side, with better sight of the Ohel, tombstones, etc.
its been fine until now and i havnt heard any stories of anything bad coming out of the regular system so why change it?
Mechitza is good and important. But let’s keep looking for a plan that doesn’t put the ladies behind bars!
I remember as a young girl, being the only girl at the farbrengens and simply stood at the back of the room beyond all the men. Why didn’t the Rebbe EVER suggest putting up a mechitza??? obviously that was not going to make or break anything!!! For all the years of the Rebbe’s nesius the Rebbe was the most frequent visitor to the Ohel, and he knew that women come there as well and for some reason he never thought of a mechitzah. So are we going to outdo the Rebbe??? When people come to the Ohel they are not… Read more »
There is no Minyan, Kaddish, Kedushah etc. People davening alone quietly probably does not require a Mechitza, maybe “Lifnim Meshuras Hadin” but I don’t think it requires a Mechitza.
The people that need or want Lifnim M’shuras Hadin will need to come at night, but if it is not required Al Pi Halachah then you can’t force it.
what i need to see is Torah..when they say zos hatorah.. I would also like to see the rabbi speaking or the hazan singing…its a personal preference if you like to stare at the wall thats your preference..thats why I daven at my shul which is a chabad shul with a normal mechitza…not a shul where the mechitza is to the ceiling…. Mens tefillos answered quicker?? why would i t hink that, then i wouldnt be all there… is that what you are saying..cause that is not very nice..i didnt throw daggers at you …. me…conservative reform…? I dont think… Read more »
Oh please! What happend to the saying “a Jew is a Jew is a Jew”… Stop preaching about Lubavitch standards, the problem with some Luibavitchers is a superiority complex of “holiness”… who are you exactly? we are all one neshama the same source, dont criticize others til you walk in their shoes!!!!! its hard being frum period…by criticizng their beards and what they wear you push them furthur away from yiddishkeit!!!!! The Torah says you must say words of comfort before you rebuke your fellow…i guess you forgot that one…how about ahavas israel… i guess you forgot that one too…Have… Read more »
You are 100% right! Who has not made changes in their lives due to the ongoing changes in the world from technology to styles?? I can guarantee that everyone of those negative replies comes from someone who does not live according to the dictates of the ’40’s, ’50’s or even the year 2000; it’s only the kulos they feel we can be outdated with and stick to….. Yes, when change is called for we must do it. And, one of the main reason is, the sorry state of tznius we have come to observe, where it is almost impossible to… Read more »
i dont think timed slots are a good idea, because what hapens if your rushing for a flight, or you dont have alot of time on your hands?
The ohel should be set up separately all year around.
With a mechitza & all.
You come from another chassidus? And I’m little red riding hood!
If you came from another chassidus & you are a woman:
1. You’d know how to write English
2.the lack of tznius would bother you.
Huh? What leadership? Anytime someone wants to make changes like a mechitza everyone screams murder. There’s not one leadership everyone accepts so everyone does as they please. Trimmed or shaved beards, disgusting tznius anything goes.
There has to be basic standards for someone to call themselves a Lubavitcher. An ohel should be a place of the highest level of tznius & halacha.
havent we lubavitchers always stood for a mechitsa even when it turned off people th reform philosophy is that it turns people off. bored at 130
You say not having a mechitza is reform…
I say that having a mechitza is reform. it’s changing the way things have been, under rabbinic leadership, for tens of years.
Reform is about doing things that you “feel” like doing. I think this Rabbi “feels” more comfortable with a mechitza. That doesn’t make it halacha.
Wanted to mention earlier that we are not a conservative movement and therefore it is not important what we like, BUT as I wrote before this is a YECHIDUS and therefore does not require a Mechitza.
It is not a shul, it is a YECHIDUS therefore I don’t believe a Mechitza is required. I don’t remember a Mechitza ever in the Rebbe’s room, do you?? Even when there were group Yechidus’n with many families they just stood seperate. True there was seperate lines for men and women by dollars but at the same time there were GROUPS and FAMILIES that did go TOGETHER, therefore there is no solution so just leave it alone. As many people wrote if ain’t broken don’t fix it. The only thing I can think of is for people that need more… Read more »
why dont the man stay behind this bars?? why the woman have to be behind it??
SEPARATE BUT EQUAL1
Halevai the ohel should be a fortress.
A fortress of kedusha
A fortress of tznius
A fortress of yiddishe values
A fortress of halacha
I came to Chabad through my husband and with all my heart made the decision to become a chassida of the Rebbe under the chuppah. We moved to Crown Heights to be closer to the kiddusha of 770 and the Ohel, but if a mechizah of this sort is implemented I will find myself with a dilemma! I cannot speak for others; only myself. I come from another branch of chassidus and have to learn how to connect to a Rebbe I have not had the privilege to meet. If an obstacle of this sort is placed before me, I… Read more »
Why has no-one thought of this?
I’m all for a mechitza, but this one is a complete fire hazard – no exit routes… and we all know what goes on with the hundreds of candles in the hallway…
there is a pix by the ramas kever taken in the 30’s. and the men are on one side an the woman on the other side no mechitza
we should keep it the way it was b4 gimeel tamuz,
“THE ISRAELIS R GETTING AGAIN {like in 770} INVOLVE OUT SIDE THERE ZONE” Take care of you guys tznius in israel , and we will take care of our business , moshiach now
Put the males where the females are and vice versa. How does that sound? I’m fine with it that way.
A man
The candles can be outside the Ohel perm. as was today. There needs to be a mechitza, there are so many people going to daven there, surely Rabbi Abba Refson will select a committee of wise people and will come up with a solution.
A hot topic, but one that needs addressed.
Abba, great job today!
Those who quote Halacha should check their sources to make sure they know what they are talking about. I respectfully disagree with Rabbi Soffer — I think he should focus his efforts on what’s going on in Kfar Chabad.
What do you need to see?? Don’t you go to daaven? Do you think men’s tefillos are answered quicker because they can see? Or perhaps you belong in a reform or conservative temple ? You can see everything there & you could even become a “rabbi” . Now that’s equality! I presume that you also daaven 3 times a day, learn 3 prokim rambam & put on tefillin? I’m a woman & I do not feel inferior or that I’m missing out. Why don’t you just do the mizvois that we need to do to the highest possible standard? Tznius… Read more »
i still see the woman in the first picture through the slats.
Once I’m in, how do I get out?
Just in case you all have bad memories or are too young but before the 1st gimmel Tammuz the ohel was a completely different place. Women frequented the ohel very rarely & some none at all. There are different opinions as to women coming to a cemetery. Things have changed & we need to meet those needs with Halacha & basic tznius in mind. 60 years ago most kalla’s did not put on a sheitel after their chassunas , so what? What happened to living with the times? There’s something sorely missing with chabad chinuch if there’s such an outcry… Read more »
Has anyone noticed that the articles concerning Tznius usually have the most comments? The international Chabad community needs to find a way to increase awareness about the halacha and hashkafa of this subject in a non-judgemental way. It is obviously an emotive issue, and a serious nisayon.
Israel’s standards are always more stricter than the rest of the world – Mea Shearim and the like. Must we replicate what goes on there? Do we have to prove that we are more religious than the עדה החרדית? no! Chabad accepts all, and this will turn away most, so why do it?
the ohel was not inundated with vsitors pre gimmel tamuz as it is now so there is no comparrison to when the rebbe went.will or won’t it be a “turn off” is now how we judge matters of halcaha or even of hergesh for tzneeus? rebbe,we need moshiach right now!!!
I think the separation needs to be in the tent, washing stations, and path to get to the Ohel.
…also serve as shuls. The ohel is not a shul. Regardless of whether he is correct or not about the mechitza, Rabbi Sofer incorrectly compared two incomparable places.
Is there a mechitzah at any other Ohel anywhere????
Without reading through all of the preceding posts and thereby risking annoying redundancy, I will pose a question because the point seems the most compelling and therefore bears repetition: If a mechitza is at all necessary why wasn’t one erected prior to Gimmel Tamuz?
For people to make excuses that are negged haTorah is against the Rebbe’s will! Since when did the Rebbe take halacha into account and make concessions to be mekarev Yidden to Yiddishkeit??? What are we selling Yiddishkeit for bobkes? Talk to the baalei tshuva and you will find out that emese yiddishkeit is what brought them closer to H’ not all the false glitter. The problem is that many have now lost it and are compromising in their yiddishkeit to impress their mekaruvim who are seriously turned away by these false assumptions. Yes, in Yiddishkeit there are divisions. And, if… Read more »
The idea of a mechitza is a good one but something does not look right about this design.
Also, the candle situation is a safety hazard that needs to be corrected. Ein soimchin al haness.
So much arguing, this is definitly not what the rebbe wanted.
And as ppl said before this is the way it was when the rebbe was there who r u to change it (you think your more frum than the rebbe!)
On very busy days have times for men and women. Oh? That is already done? ok….
the reason the rebbe did not make a mechitza is because in those days people very rarly went. it was empty. and indeed on busy days, like rosh hashono, the women would not go when the men were there.
but times have changed. since gimmul tammuz the place is packed. this means its time for a mechitza. is that not simple enough?
HAVE THE MEN WEAR VEILS AND DARK GLASSES WITH A SET OF EAR PLUGS AND COME AT ODD HOURS OF THE DAY AND NIGHT WHILE WOMEN COME WITH OUT VEILS AND MODESTLY DRESS WITH ROSE COLORED GLASSES AND HAVE THE EVEN HOURS AND NO EARPLUGS AND USE ONE DOOR AS AN ENTERANCE AND OTHER DOOR AS AN EXIT.
It has been my experience that the holiness of the Ohel causes an atmosphere of yiras shamayim…..if the men would stand closer to the center of the men’s side and the women would stand closer to the center of the women’s side and the babies could be passed back and forth if need be with families still being able to see each other…..perhaps separate entrance and exit for men and women….but not to make it into a fortress
This is a turn off. Don’t we have enough kids with a bad taste in their mouths about Chasidishkeit?
Its amazing to see how many non religious people come and feel comfortable, now this?
Did the Rebbe institute a Mechitzah or separate times for his father in law, the Previous Rebbe’s Ohel? Enough said.
Common Sense from Toronto
those of you talking about Kingston avenue…if you notice the ladies going up and down there a separation from the men would be “takke” a good idea, given the pritzus which occurs
If it was good enough for the rebbe all the years, its good enough now.
Regular days 20min. men / 20 min woman
Busy days 10 min each M/W
3 tammuz 5 min each M/W
NO MECHTZA EVER!
Great idea! It would also save people money on the trip
How about a box of very dark tinted glasses outside & whoever feels the need can just wear a pair when they go in.
to have a mechitzah in the ohel
… ואין לדבר סוף
How will people get engaged if we make seperate days?
i think jusy make a more freiendly mechitzq
it was good enough for the Rebbe for over forty years!
Need i say more?
To #77 Yours the perfect correct Yiddishe attitude. Some of the other comments are unbelievable. No wonder Crown Heights looks the way it does. Only an out of towner or out of the neighborhood Yid can see what is lacking. The right Hashkafa.
Why can’t he just build a replica in Kfar chabad next to the 770 they have there and put his mechitza up. A better idea is build 2 replicas one for men and a second for women. I would be happy to contribute!!!
lets make up new rules to show the whole world that
“chabad HAS standards! ”
now i’m impressed.
thank you!
”
The Rebbe Approved the Layout of the Ohel
No need to change it!!! “
When groups came to get dollars from the Rebbe they came together as couples. Lots of Shluchim send there balabatim to the OHel – we have balabatim from our community that go now on there own on a regular basis – they go together as a family. Such a Mechitza would be offensive. There are lots of nice looking friendly mechitzas – please don’t make it look that the woman are behind bars (i don’t mind – just thinking of the many balabatim that come.
No need to change it!!!
wow how low we have fallen. chabad HAS standards! you are probably for no mechitza in chabad house either, because we might scare away non frum yidden. have you lost it? most normal people respect ther idea of a mechitza in shul and al achas kameh vikameh by the ohel
The entrance vestibule is a problem which cannot be fixed.
Therefore any ‘crafting’ of the inside will not resolve the issue.
Separate times for men a women may be the answer
About time that someone made a mechitza,
A woman needs to be able to Daven in peace
what if a man wants to touch the tombstone? what about events like gimel tamuz, you wont be able to fill the whole place with me? maybe we should build another entrance?
“Yechezkel Soffer commissioned the simulation as part of his personal campaign”
this is his “personal” campaign. not Halacha.
and it is TOTALY WRONG.
many tousends of frum non chabad yiden both man and woman will be much more comfertebel coming to the ohal with some sort of system of seperation difrent hours or mechitza,
#77 how bout a michtza at the kotel that towers over the top so women cant see anything at all… that would be tznius wouldnt it…
halacha is great and necessary but we still have a right to voice our opinion. I am totally for a mechitza but I am allowed to disagree with the design.. and so is everybody else…why are you so quick to criticize yids …come on stop criticizing already people are there to pray
Lubacitch needs to WAKE up and realise it IS NECESSARY!!!!!!!!
TZNIUS is what the REBBE wants. Trust me, he hears ALL tefillos if you are standing behind a mechitza as well.
You should be ASHAMED to even bash those who propose this idea! I think it is long overdue!!!
Are you all some Reformists or Misguded women’s libers. I’m a woman & the same way I have zero problem with a mechitza in shul I want one at the Ohel. What’s the difference?? How exactly is this different from daavening in shul? This is far worse than making a mixed seating wedding . Anyone made one lately ? The slats allow women to see out & everyone to daaven. This is Halacha , wake up!! Non frum don’t have a problem with a mechitza so don’t use them as an excuse. If you have a problem with it maybe… Read more »
There is no mingling. no dancing. no shachris mincha or maariv.
No need for new rules. the people are doing just fine on their own.
is a grave side. maybe its like tashlich.
we travel for ten hours each way, myself, wife and little kids. we come together and then we need to head back together. its a long trip. it would be a major pain for us. little kids are very hard to manage alone. they would cry and disturb everybody etc. Separate times. Would mean that we need to wait for each other, and why? theres no base in real halacha for a michiza at a grave. its not fair. its not right. if the wall goes up there will be bigger problems. i for one will stand on the “mens… Read more »
how can one person or a small group, force hundreds of thousands. to be inconvenienced in so many ways, based on nothing but his own narrow NON-hallachick preference?
its %100 WRONG.
there never was a mechitza at the ohel. and ithere never should be.
it would be a major inconvenience. for no good reason.
its %100 WRONG.
don’t add new chumras.
tircha d’tzibura, for no good reason.
its a very inconvenient for many families etc..
it’s been that way for sixty years.
it kosher the way it is.
its wrong to add personal chumrass
on everybody’s cheshbon.
it’s been that way for sixty years.
it kosher the way it is.
live and let live.
stand separately. thats all.
its a holly place but not a bais medrash or shull.
With stairs going down so that women can touch the matzeiva and go back up.
Much Bracha
Not crazy about this idea at all but I do agree that the mechitza needs a slight upgrade ..The mechitza caters to the men nothing new there.. as women we are always the underdogs..most mechitzas are so exagerrated you cannot see or hear anything.. Should we have to be bothered and stuffed in a small closed space with no visibility because of a mens issue ? The best mechitza that I have ever seen was in South Beach Miami Chabad Yeshiva at Rabbi Korfs shul.. It was like the interogation glass they have at the FBI 🙂 On the mens… Read more »
Leave it the way it was for 60! Years
Be machmir on yourself. Not on everybody els!
FOr many to touch the matzaiva…. This new contraption will permanently prohibit men from ever getting near the Matzaiva…
When I go to the Ohel I don’t look around. I look in front of me so that I don’t fall/step on someone, into my siddur/maaneh lashon, and into my pahn. Then I back out. I’m not looking at the men OR the women – not interested to see who else is there and what they are doing. It’s just me and my Rebbe. Is it just the women/girls who are able to do this? If men have an issue/taaveh that they can’t keep their eyes in their siddur and concentrate, putting a fence/mechitza isn’t going to solve it. (they… Read more »
A mechitzah is not a bad idea but one that prohibits the view of the women of the Ohel but gives full access to the men??!! Do that, and NO non-observant Jews will return and will see Chabad as anti-female. Bad design!!
I hope the rabbis didn’t spend too much $ putting together this design. Taking a survey first – of men & women in various Lubavitch communities – would reflect more realistically what Ohel-users personal needs and concerns are (like those being stated in these comments). Then use that information to influence design.
i have been to the ohel bh with very young children. this design would make it very difficult for a toddler to go from one parent to the other (imagine the screaming other daveners would have to deal with – “tatty!! mommy!! TATTY!! MOMMY!!”) nightmarish.
also, when my arm gets exhausted from holding a baby i always let them sit on the wall so they can still hold on to me and my arm can rest. the mechitza would block that…
Wow. Talk about different reactions…
My initial negative reaction was because this design would mean men will not be able to touch or stand beside the actual Matzeivos. Did none of the critics notice that the back of the matzeivos will have no mechitzah??
This plan was clearly designed to benefit the women more than the men. I’m not a fan of the proposal, but please stop the nonsense rabbi bashing!!
Much of the criticism has been already said, however, I would like to point out another issue here (which can be fixed) is the logistics issue.
the way the ohel is now on busy days, is that you walk in one door, and cycle around and out the other. if you block it off with a mechitza, it presents a much greater challenge getting everyone in and out in a orderly fashion. (not to mention a much greater fire hazard)
but like others have said it is a turn off. I’d be more worried about the men that are hired to supervise on gimmel tammuz . I’ve never been so shocked at how they were squished in between the women and that they were practically touching them as they moved them along. If you need to hire someone to supervise on special days, hire some women who’ve been in the Israeli army – Men have no place ushering and standing inbetween women especially on Gimmel Tammuz. On sundays men never moved the crowd of women along. This really isnt acceptable… Read more »
why cant the women have equal access? if you want to separate then let men in and women in at different times but dont cut the women off from really having the ohel experience
….to annoy all the women and turn them off from visiting the Rebbe? Mechita is a good idea but this version is disgraceful. Why should the women be shoved into a cell??
Why don’t they make the Ohel bigger there is plenty of room around, and have a separate entrance for the woman, and you should have a separation but minimal, and have the candles put elsewhere for safety reasons, and why not have an entrance one side and the other side have an exit so however long it takes to go around that’s how long you have in the Ohel (larger crowds) this way of doing thing is a turn off and dangerous, the Ohel is place for reflection deep thought and not some pressure of being pushed around. I never… Read more »
I REALLY HOPE THIS DOESN’T HAPPEN..!!
I LOVE RABBI SOFER AND ALL..BUT THIS IDEA WOULD BE GREAT SOMEPLACE ELSE..NOT AT THE REBBE’S OHEL..
the mechitza should be a fence-type-thing that will stand directly opposite the headstones so women can see them too!
If it’s such a necessity, let the men be behind the bars. There is no reason why men would need the open space more than women
Must have been a man!
Look more closely at the design – the angle of the slats means that women have a good view without the men being able to see them.
Why don’t they just grow peyes, like by the satmar, where it blocks their view from looking at the woman. !! Or maybe they should devide kingston avenue into men and woman sides. Don’t use the small space of the rebbe’s Ohel to create a war between men and woman. !!!!!!!!
What about the big open space where men and woman congregate to write pidyonois to the rebbe, that is appropriate??
These are the Men who turn off the young of today!!!!!!!!
two letters,
NO!!!
BERACHAMIM TOSHUV
Just a terrible idea, obviously drawn by a man. So the women don’t get to see the matzeivahs, nor have access to tear up and place our pons?? And of course the proponent of this idea doesn’t really care. Once again, just minimize and marginalize the women! Why not reverse it as some of the comments have suggested and let the men stand behind the bars? Or better yet, if its such a problem for them to not look at the women, give them blindfolds as they enter…
Could you all poke your heads out of this golus, and stop thinking in a crooked way( which is backed by your very own yetzer harah). Think honestly what the Rebbe would really be happy with. obviously a mechitza! Who spoke more than the Rebbe on the subject of tznius? And guess what, men and women coming to daven by a Tzakdik falls under that category. I was asking for years why nothing like this was established. And by the way, since when does reasons of ugliness get in the way of halachah and tznius! P.S all the little problems… Read more »
Not practical in soo many ways! The Rebbe loves every Yid soo much and saw that EVERY Yid has a lot of good potential no matter what their standards are!! Like #1 how is this going to come across to those who may already feel distance!? I don’t think it goes in line with what the Rebbe wants. We don’t want to cause arguments Chas V’Shalom,G-d Forbid! Yes there may be to improve the Tznius aspect but building a fence does not seems like the answer.Maybe hand out some kind of eye specktical/gear for those who want and it would… Read more »
If the men are not allowed to see the women…put the men behind the cage, don’t let them see out, and all problems solved. Or, you can always have a stand with sunglass for them to put on before they enter.
does a kever of a tzaddik need a mechitza? i remember going to mekomos hakdoshim in eretz yisroel 20 yrs. ago and there were no mechitzas. recently in the last few years they are putting up mechitzas everywhere, where people might gather.let us be careful not to push the envelope. leave the women out, ban the women…you are leaving out the next generation. in a day where there a real issues and the fire of golus is consuming holy jewish children, is this the only mitzvah in which the rabbonim need to busy themselves with? let the women who choose… Read more »
lets make it like the swimming pool separate times.
If you make separate times for men and women, how will people get engaged??!! Can a husband and wife no longer go together to the Ohel?
Separate times is a horrible idea!
The Ohel has been the same for years. When the Rebbe was with us he didn’t seem to think this was an issue! so who thinks they are holier then the rebbe and that we need a mechitza? Why not also put a mechitza down kingston. Women get the east side and men will take the west!
Horrible and Ugly!
Rabbi Sofer had the proper idea, the tzniusdike approach we ALL should have, and although he mentioned the idea earlier, he was scorned for it, and I applaud his determination to follow through with this plan for a more tznius and proper conduct that the Rebbe would 100% approve of!
I agree with the time slot idea separate timing for men and women, Because this mechitzah may be very tznius, but is just not so practical!!!
terrible, idea.
its not a shul. standing separate space is fine.
Instead of condemning, let someone come up with a better solution. I have seen men say Kaddish in the Ohel opposite woman not dressed properly. Who takes the responsibility for these sins? I heard from Reb Yankel Lipsker, The Gabbay of 770 then, that when they made 770 downstairs, The Rebbe refused to come to pray downstairs till the Gaboyim put up smoked glass mehitzas. Let people suggest ideas till we find a solution acceptible to all. How about one way glass, so women can see the graves and men can not see the women. Avrahom Gilman
I once came in and found huge flames as all the all candles had caught on fire. I think this idea will make the Ohel a bigger death trap then it is already…no pun intended!
THE WOMEN CAN CLEARLY SEE IN FRONT OF BOTH__
MATZEIVOS,, BUT NOT THE FRONT OF THEM. BIG
DIFFERENCE!
what do you do when a boys camp comes?
what do you do when a women’s group comes?
Why should we have a wall blocking off half of the already tiny room?
on busy days, like gimmel Tammuz, we have an excellent rotation system.
the slats are slanted so the women can clearly see the front of both matzeivos.
the only thing is–put the men behind bars and give the women the open side. Then its really perfect.
DON’T FORGET THAT IT IS THE MEN THAT NEED THE MECHITZA. THEREFORE…….
Just another way for them to show power, this is not the way to bring Moshiach
i am a woman who is not opposed to a mechitza but this is not exactly a separation. it’s an eclosement with no view of the ohel for women.
Hey maybe the men should wear veils, especially if they are challenged in this area and not able to focus their attention to where it belongs.
there has to be a bette r solution. as it is coming and leaving thru the same entrance and exit is pretty sloppy for both women and men in their respective areas.
Especially when one is with child / children.
so true!
can some one come up with a new salution for the candels it is a huge danger with so many people pushing to get in and out and many young children and only one door to get in and out c”v nothing should ever happen but why wait till some thing happens?? may be a box out side the room. i was there today and it is very scary when so many people come to have so many candles lit.
I dont agree with this simply bc things were never a problem-y make one? and usualy the ohel isnt rediculously crowded and on special ppl organise it-leave it the way it is-moshiachs coming anyway no?
Love how they block the women’s view/access. Maybe block the men’s view and see how far you’ll get.
the men and women take turns filling up the ohel!
I agree that there needs to be a mechitza and something has to be changed, but I am very against this mechitza. It would really turn me off from going. Women should be allowed to go visit the Rebbe without feeling like there is a barrier between them and the Rebbe. Maybe even one way windows would work with openings underneath so they can throw their pans in. Or I agree, just making different time slots-those for men and those for women. I hope they don’t follow through with this plan!!
how about we turn it @, the men can go behind the mechitza
Different times for men and women? I think that’s a great idea. Say 8- 10 for women and 10-12 for men or something like that?
Why didn’t they do this before gimbal tamuz?? If the rebbe didn’t see it as a must for the previous tee then why now??
it will (obviously) block the womens side from seeing the matzeiva.
You will never win their approval any how , and why would you want it anyway.This is despicable and horribly embarassing , please dont even dream of desecrating the Ohel with this ugly ,degrading monstrosity. The Chain link fence is bad enough already.
to number 8,
why should you be able to restrict access? what kind of thinking is that? did the rebbe say no women should approach him for dollars etc. what does that mean you can restrict access – how dare you think that way!
How about having permanent time slots. ie: every 15/30 minutes Ohel changes from men to women.
Not a great idea, but better than this!
If the rabbi is so concerned with the need for a mechitza, he can fax his pidyon and not be affected by women who come to pray
Just put “directional” glass in front of the men – like they have in front of the teller computer screens at banks – so the men can only see forward.
Terrible execution…
LEAVE IT THE WAY IT IS.
How will women get to see the ohel with this mechitza. You can restrict access, but don’t block the view.
this is a very nice picture if you are a man – do you not notice that the tombstones are not where the women can see them!!!
why is that considered acceptable ? wasnt the Rebbe available to all – men, women and children –
what chutzpah!
What if I don’t get my torn letter through the narrow opening, my hand accidentally hitting the board? Does that mean then that all of the pieces of my letter to the Rebbe fall on the floor? Am I going to get trampled c’v when I have to lean down and pick them up? The winter with big gloves?
Imagine the balagan behind this mechitza when it’s crowded, and women davening and connecting with the Rebbes have to keep moving and be shoved by those who are struggling to get their letters through the skinny holes. Disruption of kiddusha is challenging enough as it is without this kind of mechitza when there’s many people. Thank you.
This design, though, looks like prison bars or slatted walls of a boxcar, oy. And we’re still going to see the women through the slats. The way it is now is already separate. The part I’m more concerned about is the vestibule where men and women have to squeeze by each other, incidentally touching, to light candles and get to their separate entrances. Good to discuss.
I am all for a mechitzah, don’t get me wrong but those slats look like a jail cell.
according to this, the men and womenstill enter through the same very narrow door and hall – doesnt really solve the problem much…
I’m religious , Lubavitch a mother and grandmother, and this
type of Mechitzah Turns me Off……How will this affect the people you are trying to turn on. In fact knowing the rebbe’s policies, he would Not have chosen this.!!