The topic discussed was modesty of women and girls approaching the summer and sun bathed months, but no female was in sight.
A crowd of more than 100 men gathered Wednesday in the Kollel Menachem Beis Medrash in Crown Heights for a lecture entitled “Tznius – What can I do?”
The speaker was Rabbi Aharon Dovid Gancz, an educator in Morristown, New Jersey.
Rabbi Gancz spoke about how the Crown Heights community in general, and men in particular, need to take tznius more seriously, which will have a positive effect on all those around them, extending to family, friends, and community.
The lecture was organized by Yagdil Torah and sponsored by Mink Jewelers.
75 right on!
A Shlucha, who people look up to as the Rebbe’s representitive, as Judaism’s representitive, certainly has the obligation to dress in a modest fashion, not the opposite.
I hope this will serve to inspire the women in general and Shluchos in particular to behave as fit for a Chabad woman.
Are you living in a bubble? Have you ever met other shluchos who dress the same as some of these women in crown heights? Well, I have. I’ve seen shluchos with cap sleeves, shluchos with VERY open necklines (right here on COL pictures- which were subsequently taken down to protect the shlucha),. I know shluchos who don’t wear socks- so please, don’t make generalizations. There are tznius shluchos and untznius shluchos. There are tznius crownheightsers and non-tnzius ones. The disgrace is worse when a shlucha, who supposedly represents the Rebbe, has the audacity to dress like that.
hurt ppl hurt others!
ppl suffering from internal image issues, are too self preoccupied to sense the needs or feelings of others, like someone whose finger is stuck in a door, you have NO SPACE to think about another!!
if u lack the Yiras H, ch”v or if u lack the Trust in the Rebbe’s brachos for tznius or if u dont mind thumbing your nose at our dear Rebbes’s Bakasha Nafshis, or if u simply have a very strong craving for the wrong kind of attention, even the most secular visitors to C.H, often DO attempt to dress modestly, out of “MENTCHLICHKEIT” aka Decency!! for the Torah-Adherence who reside in this FRUM comunity! my point is: its one thing to dismiss the G-d’s command (halacha) and the Rebbe’s plea! (yes its a dark Galus!) RL its another thing… Read more »
THE PAIN IS REAL! PEOPLE ARE CRYING OUT AD MOSAI! WHEN WILL ALL THIS UNTZNIUS COME TO A FULL STOP AND ALLOW NOT ONLY THE MEN AND BOCHURIM BUT THE WOMEN AND GIRLS TOO WALK OUR STREETS IN DIGNITY??!!
TAKE OUT A SHULCHAN ORECH AND SEE FOR YOURSELF THAT WOMEN DRESSED IN AN UNTZNIUS WAY IS NOT ONLY HER PROBLEM BUT SHE CREATES A PROBLEM FOR ANY MAN MAKING A BRUCHA, LAYNING KRIAS SHEMA OR SAYING A DOVAR KEDUSHA AND THIS MIGHT BE HER FATHER/HUSBAND/SIBLING, WHO SHE WOULD NEVER HARM IN ANY WAY!
AD MOSAI!
We Dont Need Weman patrol But We Do Need Some Mitzva Tanks Spreding The Word Of Tznius In CH And Some Frum Girls Handing Out Flyers on kingston of goodnes and kindnes of tznius And About Rabbi Ganz He is Rreal Harav HATOMIM He has BH The the Goodnes of chabad and Satmar togeder thank you thank rabbi ganz
that post #69 is very uncomfortable with allowing all voices to be aired, and for the public, to be adequately able to sort out the TRUTH from the NAY SAYERS,
INSTEAD OF FEARRING THE TRUTH, EMBRACE IT,
I DID SO RELUCTANTLY, AT A VERY YOUNG AGE, AND HAVE NO REGRETS, (i see the joy and blessings first hand)
sorry for the harsh tone!
which comments would be sinister?
the only ones that sound hateful, (not pained) are the defensive ones, uncomfortable with the overwhelming growing sentiment of restoring bracha and dignity, to c.h. streets
they dont care about DEFAMING the Rebbetzen!!
theyr too busy with in fighting
commenting are the ones who hate R. Gazs and tried to RL to kill him, and R korf 30+ years ago!!
there adjenda is NOT served by any of the comments on this forum!!
i have a strong intuition that a few satmar pranks are writing some of this comments for alterior reasons (self explenetory) please don’t let yourself be sucked in
HATZLUCHO
i am a shliach i think it is very wrong for you to write what u wrote no need to comment
your comments are “defaming the rebbe’s name and kovod”.
you lack understanding of varied background & history of people in C.H.
very condescending, nasty & judgmental.
this attitude is POLAR OPPOSITE of the REBBE’s!
people with this attitude who care about their hiskashrus to the Rebbe, would only gain(: hiskashrus, nachas to the Rebbe, becoming more eidel, coming across more eidel, [and therefore being able to convince people about the beauty of tznius -among other mitzvos, vchulu vchulu) by completely rethinking their perspective on their fellow chossid.
please please dont judge the ENTIRE CHABAD COMMUNITY by the 10% bottom of the pail leftover in C.H. with the exception of some, (directed to stay in C.H by the Rebbe.) the vast majority of C.H.ers are “unfit” or “unwilling” to go out b’MS“N on shlichus, (a life of meaning and yidisheh joy,) instead they are the 10% who simply need more guidance and kiruv, (my comments pertain exclusively to those in C.H. that they apply to! not to ALL the residents, SOME do dress with self respect! my comments are meant to set the record streight about the issue… Read more »
same here!
i can testify first hand that ive witnessed a direct correlation of “brachos” in my life ever since making the commitment to only leave my home wearing a sheitel! (it works!)
i wish there was a way to effectively relay my expiriance to my C.H. fellow peers!
i am imagining this, and i was hoping that these women would dress like a true bas melech – royally. knowing how to dress tzniusly is really an art. You do in fact have to tune into a place inside yourself that ‘speaks’ respect to oneself. once there, and it feels real – you can tune in and find the clothes that match that feeling inside. it is all about matching an expression. rather is should be a healthy/beautiful expression from a place of deep yiddishe connection to the Abishter. Go women! the more you withhold, the better life gets… Read more »
the need for self denegrating attention is soo strong, no DRASHA can talk a girl out of it once they crossed that line! again they are NOT BAD, they are hurting inside! lacking the right attention from their own (clueles) husbands who have never been given any guidance on how to treat a wife and keep her (soul-heart) satasfied fulfilled and feeling cherished, a truly happy women HAS NOT THE IMPULSE nor TEMPTATION to dress in violation of halacha, self respect, and all the brachos promissed by the Rebbeh for MS”N on tznius the problem is though that the truth… Read more »
crown hights needs a big fix up before moshiach comes
unfourntonatly we have to be mekarav to yidishkeit oue own
may hashem help rabbi ganz for his eforts
Let’s lower the heat a bit. Nobody is suggesting a taliban vice patrol. In a ‘free county’ anyone can indeed dress as they see fit. And anyone in a free country can respectfully and tactfully try to sensitize them to the community’s concerns.
ALso, we are not talking turning women into nuns. We are talking about heightening awareness and sensitivites. For some women their efforts and personal spiritual station takes them to one place, for others to a different level of regard for tznius.
And let us salute each person’s effort in combatting thier own nisyonos. G-d loves you all.
rabbi gancz is NOT satmar. i can testify because i happen to know him personally. whats the difference anyway? we are all jewish. some people juust have alot to learn.
what shocking immaturity.
Some of the people who have a problem with tznius don’t identify with Lubavitch (some because of problems with Lubavitch schooling) and view tznius as a Lubavitch issue. The problem is an issue of fearing Hashem-we need top teach people Yiras Shomoyim.
To #56 I had the opposite problem-I wanted my daughters to dress tznius and my husband refused to back me up. So I gave up.
I know of a man in the neighborhood who berated his daughter before she was going out in a state of undress. His wife, the girls mother, shouted at her husband in front of all present, that she is the girls mom and she will decide how her daughter can go out dressed, or in this case, undressed. This girl, and others like her, might be attracting the male attention..but, any mother of a boy worth her weight in salt will not allow her son to actually marry these girls that walk around looking like hookers. And, unless these boys… Read more »
WHH Most Israeli women are shocked by the dress of the american women, all of us frum, mind you, who visit our communities. I believe it has nothing to do with self esteem issues, if anything i think many of us have an altogether exalted self image, deserved or not, nor does it have to do with understanding the halachos, although learning them is not a bad thing and should be praised in itself, and taught to our young children. The truth is that our dress reflects the norms and values of a society in general, and what we are… Read more »
Dear critics, I wana tell you somthing I came to Lubavitch about 27 years ago and I dont live in CH I am mechanech my kids according to rebbe in evry aspect but unfurtonatly I couldnt send my Girls to CH because I came to lubavitch to upgrade my yidishkeit not to downgrade. my girls always asked me if we are lubavitcha chasidim why dont we learn there?the anser is that tznius is chitzonius and we are pnimiyims. I must tell you we are always used to say that we are the bechir Ha’nivroem but not the in this, our… Read more »
to me the real problem is young women with deplorable self image issues its got nothing at all todo with KNOWING the halachos its got everything todo with knowing (thinking) that i am a worthless nothing and therfore anything goes,! RL i’ve never met a Happy well adjusted young women with a craving to expose more than halacha allows get to know any one of these women personally (let them open up to you) you’ll see, that behind those fake smiles is a “shattered-selfesteem” probably by a bully -teacher or student these girls feel no shame b/c there is no… Read more »
i agree 100% with #25, and besides that who ever is writing this nonsense things about this is someone with no brains and probably one of the people Rabbi Ganz was speaking about. You should be ashame of yourself for being SO blind and such an ignorant ignoring the fact that women in CH are a huge concern, and the future generation depends on them, people that come to CH can’t believe their eyes and neither can i, unfortunately some people look at them as example(what about her children?!) how can a frum lady be like that!!! would she be… Read more »
WHH There are many views of self expression in the manner in which one dresses, however there is only one view of the Halacha in the Shulchan Aruch. What a shame and a chillul Hashem for Crown Heights to be known as a place to be lax with this exalted mitzvah! Anyone who makes an effort to learn these hilchos should be praised not denigrated. Why so many venal comments from those who know who they are? Might you be just a tad defensive? We have a problem here in Eretz Yisroel with Tznius as well. Perhaps one solution is… Read more »
That’s right- that’s why many of these people are the biggest hypocrites and oh the ones who think they are sooo superior because no one else is like chabad- uh huh, right!You wish.
It is shocking to see how most of the people are responding! The proof is the you were not there. Would you have been there you would have sang a different niggun, a Chassidishe niggun! Interesting when anyone ever came over from Satmar to Lubavitch the Rebbe never had a problem accepting them and some of you have a problem with the person who came over to Lubavitch some 20-30 years ago yet have no problem with the person who became frum 2-3 years ago and we bring him into our mosdos to teach, preach or share their philosophy/phsyciatry or… Read more »
I think #31 has the perfect suggestion. And probably the best people who can do it are the Tzfatim(taliban). They should have plenty of experience with that kind of stuff from their patrolling days in Afghanistan.
The ‘language’ you use and the WAY you use it -i.e. LASHING swords freely , is mamosh l’haflee. No wonder Moshiach is still waiting.
The Rebbe said that any woman that does not dress properly is an insecure woman.She is looking for attention .Perhaps these woman should find other healthy ways to feel good about themselves rather than to attract unwanted attention.
Also if it was exlained to them that when a person is not carefull with Tznius they also are lax with many other Halachos which desroys their children Yiddishkeit.
SATMAR ALLWAYS HAD2 TOPICS “t z i y o y n i m” and
“t z n ie s / p r i t z e s” and all in the negative, in LUBAVITCH we allways knew POSITIVE MIVTSOIM,
please continue keeping SATMAR campaigns in WILLIAMSBURG,
To all those who asked why this class was addressed to men, and even went as far as to call it “immodest”: Firstly, a man or woman in a stable marriage have the most influence over each other. Moreover, in many cases a father has more influence on his daughter than the mother. It is for precisely this reason, that a woman gets the reward for her husband’s and son’s learning, because she is the one who was given the task to encourage them to go learn. On the same note, when a woman dresses in an immodest way, the… Read more »
A HAPPY WOMEN WONT DEGRADE HERSELF, FOR SOME PERVERTED ATTENTION,
ALL WE NEED IS A LITTLE LOVE, LOVE, LOVE
WELL WHAT EXACTLY IS THE POINT OF THESE SHIURIM IF THE ONES WHO NEED TO ATTEND MOST—DONT ATTEND??? WHAT IS THE POINT??? WOULD SOMEBODY TELL ME PLEASE?
~a gut shabbos
were is tanya chabad bitel hara chaslsha atmosfar in Ch
a Charpa in Shanda
VERY WELL SAID!!!!!
BRING IN JUST A LITTLE LIGHT, IT WILL PUSH AWAY LOTS OF DARKNESS.
Criticism aint gonna work in this generation.
1. it is a wonderful idea to get Bais Shmuel behind the tznius campaign. The men of Bais Shmuel put their money where there mouths are (I am aware of the pun). Yes, many of the Bais Shmuel wives could use help with the tznius, but, just as Rabbi Jacobson is getting the shul /men into shape, he can do the same for the women. 2. We are very lucky to have Rabbi Gancz as part of our kehilla. 3. #33, excellent suggestion 4. #17, how about you getting the women of the neighborhood that are walking around in a… Read more »
We have Chasidus, Understanding of Bittul, Gan eden Ho’elyon, Tankistin, Bais Hamikdosh Sh’bbovel, Rosh Hashanna L’chasidus, The Nussie of the entire Generation, Chitas, Mivtzoim, Etc Etc.
No other group in Klal Yisroel has all this. And yet we can not adhere to basics of Yiddishkeit, until we bring in somebody from Monroe to lecture us?
First of all #31, if I ever go to C.H and you tell me something, I would tell u something back in a very unladylike manner!How dare you?This is the USA and I can walk on any street in any fashion I desire.Get that through your head Ms. Patrol!!The other thing I notice is the mention of Stamar and snag as if these are two cursed groups. You people are disgusting when you speak that way about a fellow Jew and don’t even dare bring up the Rebbe when write such things. !!
Who is the idiot who walked around making sure that every single person in attendance would show up on the internet? That had to have been beyond annoying! Photograph the speaker, a couple machers, and sit down and listen!
For the benefit of all the readers especially #17 & 29. Can someone please post in English the Rebbe’s letter that Rabbi Gancz read at the shiur. In the letter the Rebbe details all the good that will come from observing the laws of Tznius and then mentions the bad that will happen if we are not careful – something that the Rebbe rarely did.
Indeed, I must concur with my fellow trolls that it appears the target audience was in fact not in attendance. This is a chance for the organizers of the local outreach centers like beis Shmuel and Ohel Nosson to step up to the plate. I am sure that Rabbi Pinson and his wife are paragons of chassidishkeit and tznius, respectively, but let us indeed see whether or not the modern orthodox congregants at the above mentioned institutions are on their way UP the derech or merely solidifying their DOWNWARD journey by seeking mainstream legitimacy in the Chabad community as an… Read more »
THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THE SITUATION IS TO HAVE A FEW WOMAN ON KINGSTON AVE PATROLING. ANYTIME THEY SEE A WOMAN NOT DRESSED PROPERLY ONE WOMAN GOES OVER AND SAYS SOMTHING TO HE. WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THE WOMAN WONT WANT TO BE HARRASED SO EITHER THEY WILL DRESS PROPERLY OR AVOID KINGSTON AVE. IN A WEEK THE PROBLEM WILL BE SOLVED. WE NEED SOME VOLUNTEERS FOR A TZNIYUS PATROLL.
You imply that the “derech of chabad” is that women are the only ones that can speak to women about Tznius. Actually, the rebbe writes that” the derech of chabad was not to speak about tznius at all – we didn’t need to. In today’s day and age it is absolutely necessary” it is everyone’s responsibility, fathers included to make sure that V’hoyo Machanecho Kodesh
We look like boro park and wiliamsburg… our focus should be on improving our education system; the problem not not tzniut, that is a result
the rebbe said: to push away darkness we must add light
it is shocking to see such negative comments from ppl. men should learn hilchos tznius, not only should they set standards in their homes, they must be aware of which standards they should have. in addition, both husband and wife need to be on the same page if they want to have any chance of having their children heading in the right direction. unfortunately, in too many homes only one spouse sets the standards creating confusion in the kids.
To all Woman That are offended by this:
Grow up, we men have children and wifes.
and if i may say, Tzinius applies to men exactly equal as it applies to woman. I hate to break it to you but no one is talking about you. Your Tzinius is your Problem.
I know some Woman (feminists) who dont want the men to have any influence in their homes, and they want it to be a womans world. I truly think these woman are extremely insecure and should see a doctor.
Lechaim Ulevracha
In just a few short lines you managed to degrade two of our best and brightest mechanchim. I wonder who YOUR role model is.
Ps In the past sixty years the overwhelming majority of our best Rabbonim, Roshei yeshivos, and Mashpim weren’t Lubavitch from birth – Lubavitch is a way of life not a birthright.
In a civilized fashion!
Even though these men look so frum, it doesn’t mean their wives are dressed so tzniusdik!
I think it is definitely important to have these shiurim
Thank you for that clear, great answer.
Kol Hakavod.
Rabbi Gancz has addressed the women many times in both speeches and Nshei Chabad articles. Rabbi Gancz knew that there are people like you out there, who will use the Rebbe to avoid and quash any thought of an effort to improve the Tznius situation, and therefore he came armed with many letters where the Rebbe could not have been clearer that it MUST be addressed, and not in undercover gatherings. Men are getting involved in the Tznius of the women in their immediate families, towards whom they have the responsibility of setting standards, and encouraging and enforcing adherence to… Read more »
I would love to talk to you for a few minutes
I think you are so very very very much misguided
and I don’t think you have ever learned the gemara before.
This is amazing
and yes women should also learn the importance of men Davening with a minyan and the importance of growing a beard.
Torah is not perverse
you thinking this way is
yes yes yes exactly
and the women should all have a shiur on the importance of davening with a minyan and wearing a beard.
This is the right topic but the wrong crowd.
for bringing us yet another great shiur
It is is because of people like you, lubavitch is sidelined by the rest of the Frum world. So what if a Satmara tells you about Tznius.
The Gemara says that you could learn the Mida of Chesed from a Cat, of so why cant you learn something from a fellow Yid.
It is about time we had a bit of Ahavas Yisroel to frum Yidden, not only friyer Yidden-with big bank accounts.
While the problem of tznius needs to be addressed, it would seem that women should be the ones addressed, and women doing the speaking. Instead, this topic taken up by men for men in a formal setting at which men alone are invited, is in itself an indicator of something rather perverse. Truly, this has never been the derech of Chabad, and is completely antithetical to the spirit of Chabad. Women have been empowered in most areas of life within Chabad, and to have men convene to discuss women’s tznius is at least as offensive as women dressing immodestly, if… Read more »
THere is a simple solution:
CH men: make sure your wives dress tzinus. Our future, our children’s future, is at stake.
If you dont take a stand now there’s no telling how far this crisis will go.
-Concerned Crown Heightser
Sorry to say but these men look very frum and aidel. Rabbi Gancz should be addressing the husbands whose wives have the real problem.
Here you have proof of a change in the feeling of the neighborhood, and you only see the negative….
shame on you!
a deih zoger in heinteker lubavitch ober nisht in unzere lubavitch. Reb Mendel told the “Rosh” the same way you cant wipe the shvartz of a shvartze you cant wipe the misnagedishkeit of a snag so too you could take the satmar out of williambsburg but you cant take williamsburg out of the satmaer
IT’S SO REFRESHING TO SEE YOUR OPTIMISTIC ATTITUDE…………………………… IT’S NICE TO COMPLAIN, BUT EVEN NICER TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING POSITIVE AND CONSTRUCTIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES, GIVE US ALL A BREAK – FROM YOUR ATTITUDE
Lubavitch has a lot to offer today and if you do not like it no one is stopping you from moving back to Monroe Tzinius is very important and i can asure every one that those that do not walk around tziniesdick are NOT HAPPY PEOPLE and that is a fact and please do not look down at ANY of our couples Because when push comes to shove a girl from crown hights will do more then a 100 women from Monroe the Tznius issue in CH is a disaster but talking down and bringing in a satmar philosophy to… Read more »
Dont u feel ashamed and embarrased to talk like that?? u definitely should be embarrased! Who are you to talk so disrespectfully about other people? Whether you hold of the same opinion as them or not does NOT matter – what matters is just to have respect for another person, whether u think they are rediculous or not!
he is R’ AD Gancz who became Lubavitch Chosid back in the good old days when Chabad had something to offer too bad he can not turn back the clock
How these men look they are prob the freakiest of them all….. exactly thats how many men came to hear about women I would be careful when passing one of these loons, even if you are dressed like a monk you might turn one of them on…. THIS IS NOT GONNA HELP
And leave off of beis shmuel, if this loser comes to talk to them, they decide to give it ALL UP!!!!!!
Who is this SATMER looking guy telling us what to do??
So many men came to hear about women….
I think Bais Shmuel should have him come speak! Being as they are very active in our community and accomplish so much in so many areas, if Rabbi Gancz speaks to them and they practice what they hear, Crown Heights will surely see an improvement in tznius as Bais Shmuel crowds are big accomplishers “and they know how to get the job done”. If Bais Shmuel was put to task we will see an improvement on the streets immediately.
Give me a break. This will do nothing. i wouldbe willing to bet on it
People do care! I’m so glad to see that people showed up. There are many people in the neighborhood that really care about the situation, and want to change it…. lets hope this makes a positive change in the atmosphere and people really start taking how they dress seriously…
The tznius in CH has reached an unbelievably low level. I find it hard to believe anything will happen because of this shiur. Notice how all the men that attended look… I doubt it’s THEIR wives that are the problem….
LEt’s see if there will be any improvement….