By Rebbetzin Anonymous
Do you have a hard time saying no to your kids when they want something? We want to be able to give our kids the sun, moon and stars but we can’t afford to give our kids everything that “everyone else” has. And even if we can afford it, here’s a perspective that can help you say no when the ‘wants’ are out of hand.
Story #1:
Mushkie is the only girl in her family, her parents bought her anything she ever asked for. While her friends worked at day camps, she did every travel program available in Lubavitch.
Now she’s married. She wanted a working boy, and at 22, her husband has a good, stable job. Mushkie can’t understand and feels extremely hurt and controlled when her husband shows her the bills and explains that they just can’t afford to rent a house in the country near her brothers and that they can’t afford to move to a new building where the rent is double the price.
Her husband is just trying to live responsibly and hardly buys a thing for himself in order for her to be able to spend freely. They both resent each other and the marriage is rocky.
Story #2:
Chani’s the youngest after many years of her parents not having kids. She always had the best of everything. Designer pajamas included.
Her husband grew up without much of anything and built an Amazon business from the ground up starting when he was still in yeshiva. He wants to give his family everything but simply can’t keep up with the lifestyle she’s accustomed to. He feels like a terrible “provider” and she lets him know that he should really be earning more money.
As her resentment grows he feels less and less like the person he worked so hard to become. His friends and family worry for him.
*
These are just two stories from our community (names changed of course) and there are hundreds more. Spoiling boys is also a thing and they run up insane credit card debt that creates its own kind of stress.
So, next time you have to – or you choose to – say no to a child’s request for things, remember not to feel guilty. You’re helping them with their future shalom bayis.
Just pointing out that especially to teens, saying no too often is definitely a problem as well. It causes a pain of oh, I can’t ask for anything cause they can’t afford it, almost making it feel like the teens problem…. It’s almost like a restriction, you’ll want to over-indulge if no is said too often
Saying things like ” we choose how to spend our money, and we are choosing to say no to this”
Stop being ridiculous. You can just tell your kids “no” and they’ll be fine. You’ve been told “no” and you’re fine. Everybody is fine. With rare exceptions, if you’re child holds resentment because of all the “no”s they’ve heard growing up, even if you would’ve always told them “yes,” they’ll have another issue with you.
Your correct the post is correct both are on point.
אלו ואלו דברי אמת ונכון
The key to it all is of course moderation. Say yes at times say no at times find a medium and balance so as in eating gaining weight verses being healthy being a Chosid & Chosid shoite. It’s a balance we must find with everything in life.
You’all need to understand that a spoiled 22 year old isn’t a big deal, you don’t stop maturing and growing the day you get married.
And to some it takes longer than others to value money.
Also, the more you spend the more you hustle to pay the bills, it’s a win-win
like a goy wrote it
I’m sorry, i totally forgot about the love our dear community has towards staying on benefits, Medicaid and food stamps for the rest of their lives.
What is that supposed to mean.
And to speak derogatory of goyim for no reason
to make money
“The more you spend the more you hustle….”. Really now? It’s that simple?
You forgot to mention a third situation of being spoiled:
A a only child myself, when reaching shidduchim and since my parents are well off, status etc…
the boys mother bluntly said in my face said: if I want her son I have to forget about my parents and once my parents leave this world, my money is hers….
So you forgot to mention spoiled (not to mention cruel and evil) future mothers in law, as well….
I understand someone having the impulse to marry into a well off family for a sense of security, etc. But in what world does that extend to a demand for financial ramifications, especially when the husband is (for better or worse) seen as the financial earner in traditional society? What is he bringing to the table, aside from simply existing?
The prospective shveeger is sick!
In fact, it sounds like this prospective shveeger is not looking for a real person for a daughter-in-law. Rather the prospective shveeger ees you as the key to fulfillment of all her financial dreams!
SO sick!!
Again, DO NOT marry into that family!!!
don’t bring happiness or longterm satisfaction.
when you are selecting a wife, don’t pick someone who will want you to buy her clothing that isnt tzinius, long fashion wigs, and waste money on dumb things like going to the nail salon every week.
My wife works hard to buy her long wigs, it a hiddur mitzvah in her eyes. Sorry you can’t afford one.
While we were dating my husband and I spoke about finances and spending and i told him that often tzbius clothing just costs more. I don’t go shopping often but when I do it’s not uncommon for a Jewish brand weekday dress to be $100, not to mention tights that constantly need to be replaced, Shantel’s and maintenance. Bh all spending on good things, but just to be aware this isn’t even considered excessive.
So is it ok if these two girls grow up to marry mich live happily ever after and give tzedakah endlessly? It’s just not ok if their parents worked hard to send them to expensive summer programs that our mechanchim run, and dressed them in designer pajamas they asked no one else to pay for, because for sure they will end up miserable once their married? How about instead of learning fo say no, and not buy spend or send you child fo camp. Just teach them the value of love, life, family, and that you and your spouse work… Read more »
From a similar family. I now give my kids like I was given to…
Do the schools you send your kids to compensate their staff well and on time? I left after realizing Chabad Chasidus is absolutely G-dly but the people dress their kids in matching designer pajamas while the teachers struggle to pay their bills. The 5 towns started to look like a more ehrleche community than Crown Heights.
Not every girl that comes from money or is spoiled by her family is high maintenance
I’ve yet to see ONE in my life.
here’s 1.
just kidding. im a guy and im not rich. but it does not depend on money. it depends on chinuch. rich people have their nisyonos and so do poor people.
I think you’re making some leaps here. The two stories that you present don’t necessarily result from parents not saying “no” to their children. Alternative explanations can be girls being given unrealistic expectations of their soon-to-be husbands or the lack of financial education in our community. As an aside, I do believe that stories like the ones you mention are more rare today than they were years ago. Nowadays, most Lubavitcher women work, so they have a better intuition of personal finance. Finally, is there a solution to the situations described in the two stories you told? I honestly don’t… Read more »
post your name so i know never to tell you anything because i wouldnt want it posted on collive
Each parent know their child best. Some teens actually need that the parents generously spoil them. Kids who have had trauma may go and look to dumb their pain from the wrong places. Sometimes “spoiling” them helps them feel loved and valued and save them from self harm, addiction and unhealthy relationship with boys. Each mother knows their child and can speak to their mashpia about how much to spend on their daughter. If you want your kids to value money, model it by you yourself by not indulging and wasting money on yourself. We are our children’s best role… Read more »
Finances and ur spending habits should be discussed before marriage, just as other things during dating are important to discuss , money is just as important!
In many ways we live in a world of material comfort financial mobility. Partially fueled by comparisions and no child left unhappy.
There are payoffs to that, as the very valid pionts the author mentioned.
Because we can afford it doesn’t mean we need to buy it or that our child will be better off with it. Many times it can be detrimental.
Humans metamorphize through discomfort.
I agree totally that this is a big problem people are facing. Its about the lifestyle parents teach their children more than saying no. When i was in fourth grade and i wanted something my father asked me Why do you want that? my answer was-because all the other girls have it? My father said well that is a reason NOT to get it. One has to learn to be who they are not just following the jonses. We are paying the price for not teaching our children that the lifestyle we live is where we have our needs met,… Read more »
There’s a certain standard of living. Perhaps it differs slightly from community to community, or even from one class of children to another, but there is a standard. We SHOULD maintain the standard for our children, even if it seems in excess compared to what we had. If everyone at school has a phone, a new one, it’s an obligation to make sure your child has one as well. Feeling like you’re lacking compared to your friends will create far more damage than the possibility of them being spoiled. Don’t walk away from this article and tell your child no… Read more »
Just because some stupid people decided that something is an absolute must I don’t need to follow along like a shepsele.
The greatest gift you can give your child is to use their own mind and their own good sense!!
What are you talking about?! The original commentor said it’s a mitzvah-obligation and saying no to tour child is “abusive behavior”.
How dare you argue? Are you an abusive parent?
Everyone in the comments seems like they’re excited to go and tell their child no, because this article just gave them permission. If you have a legitimate reason to say no, and think it’s the right thing, by all means. Say no. But to tell your child no and the only reason being is to make sure they don’t get too spoiled is bizarre and abusive behavior. Imagine you asked your spouse for something and every once in a while they said no, just so you didn’t start to expect a yes every time you asked. That would be absolutely… Read more »
If you convince yourself your child doesn’t need a phone like EVERYONE else is his or her grade, for whatever reason, your child won’t be on the same page. Your child is feel lacking, will be embarrassed, and will resent you. You’re not going to be the first person in history to teach their young child to not be jealous.
There are some really low key communities out there where kids don’t feel deprived if their pajamas come from Walmart. In very large communities there are usually smaller shuls and communities where every crowd has a different standard. One granddaughter goes to a Chabad school that has one bas mitzvah party for the whole class (Beit Shemesh) but prohibits individual bas mitzvah parties. I don’t think that anyone says “no” when they can provide something but plenty of kids hear “no” because the parents really can’t provide it.
This isn’t an effect of spoiling, but of not knowing the value of money. I was also extremely spoiled, yet I was taught the value of money and how to make it. I have education and b”H I make much more than most of my friends. Still, when I get married iy”H soon I won’t expect my husband to provide what my father does. In addition, my father b”H is still around to provide, and I can work myself which I also do. Finally, I’m hoping to go on Shlichus even if that means marrying someone who will provide less.… Read more »
Your kids are fortunate to have you 😊
This must be one of the biggest conclusion jumpers I ever read
I think the author is taking a very shallow look at later situation, and not looking deep enough into the underlying issues… Spoiling the kids, is a symptom, not the real issue. Saying no, doesn’t solve the bigger issues that all this stems from.
You obviously need a balance
When was the last time a adult said “no” to another adult?! Which adult today can handle a “no” because what’s their asking is totally uncalled for! Haven’t found one yet…
so perhaps FIRST adults should take a “no” and not be spoiled believing that everything has to be a “yes” otherwise they throw a “tantrum ” and go against any adult who tells them no.
What are you trying to say? Do you want this to be how adults can communicate?
REUVEN: Hey, Shimon, can you lend me your pen for a second?
SHIMON: No.
REUVEN: …
SHIMON: People haven’t been saying “no” enough these days.
But why are the examples only of spoiled woman, there are many men who cannot manage the finances and spend too much money irresponsibly too!
To support the author’s point, there’s a crucial difference between a woman being denied something from her husband and a man being reckless with their finances. The former can result from being spoiled as a child, while the latter has no relationship to being spoiled as a child.
In theory, the roles could be reversed if the woman is the breadwinner and the man is the dependent. But that’s far less common than the opposite.
Something that I teach my kids is that if we NEED it Hashem will provide, when? I don’t know! But if we need it, certainly hashem will provide. If we want it, then we might need to wait longer. It’s ok to want something, we all want something, but rest assured if we NEED it Hashem will always find a way to give it to us I have seen this shift with how my kids ask for things and how they react when we have such conversations. We don’t need to say NO, no is a strong word. We can… Read more »
This article would sound more balanced if you brought examples of boys and girls who are spoiled. By bringing stories of girls only, it sounds like you have a personal gripe you’re dealing with, with one specific female. If you’re writing an article for the general public, it would make sense to include a broader discussion of this issue, not just expressing your gripes on a public forum.
I happen to know of a man who overspends and can’t manage his money but I’m not going to write an article about men being spoiled.
The Rebbe addresses this in Igros. Speaking to parents whose child was struggling: (paraphrasing from memory)
‘There are doctors who are of the opinion that it is beneficial to give children everything they went. In recent years this approach has shown to be detrimental and doctors are beginning to recognize the failings of this approach.
In general, as with all things, the proper approach is the golden path of the Rambam: The middle path.’
I see in the majority of cases, it is the woman who is always being told she overspends. In this case, from experience I’ve learned that if the woman takes care of the money she will manage it better. You can’t expect a woman to know what to buy if she doesn’t know what’s coming in. I’ve told this to many people. Let your wives take care of the bills and she will be very clever at managing it in the future. I beg people to do this. You will see great marriage satisfaction this way. And don’t tell your… Read more »
What I’d your daughter is making $20/hour as a pre-school assistant?
Maybe pay for her education so she can make $30 as a main teacher before cutting her off financially.
We should pay our teachers more.
Do you pay full tuition? Until you do, you have zero standing to claim that we should pay teachers more.
The writer made a valid point, even though the opinion expressed is somewhat conversial. I am impressed with the good values and depth of thinking of the people who are responding. It’s a nuanced topic, not all black and white, and people get it B”H. Wishing everyone hatzlacha and joy in parenting!
Most parents of only children or of only girls (among brothers) or only boys (among sisters), etc. make an extra effort to NOT spoil! There are many only (or only-like) children who are not at all materialistic, generous, and thoughtful of others: their parents bent over backwards to instill modest middos. Every time I hear these stereotypes, I want to look the stereotyper in the eye and ask them which of their siblings would they wish weren’t born, who kept them from being an only child? It ain’t what most people think: it can be very lonely much of the… Read more »
simple answer is marry Australians. non of them are spoiled and all of them resilient. problem solved
that large categorizations and stereotypes are not reality
you cannot say all _____ are ______ about anyone or anything for the most part.
everyone is different. everyone is their own person. everything is a case by case basis. everyone is like a unique snowflake. there’s almost always an exception.
Both examples seem simplistic and misguided. Our children are not our lifetime puppets. Our parents are not our lifetime role models. Parents are not the end all. They’ve gifted life and examples. Child who adults has the choice and responsibility to direct their life by copying their childhood parents or act differently. Offspring can choose whether their parents’ best efforts will be their own best performance. A couple who fights over cash flow has their work cut out for them and choices to make. Talk, learn, listen, compromise, change, continue fighting, divorce… If someone wishes to perpetuate a childhood lifestyle… Read more »
There are people who were told no they’re whole life and had nothing and so when they start making their own income they overcompensate for all they missed out on.
and sometimes it happens the other way around, where someone is given everything, and they realize after having everything that things do not bring happiness, so they focus all their pursuits on Torah. It depends on the soul and what their past lives were and who they are as a soul.
High maintenance girls and boys can be the cause of a lot of Sholom Bayis issues. Peer pressure and expecting to live the standards their parents currently live has been the root cause of many divorces in our community.
is marrying the person who is not your real soul mate.
I think giving your children the skills to provide for themselves is the best thing and this is how I was raised. I worked, if I wanted something I bought it with my own money and I eventually learned how to save up for things I really wanted and wouldn’t have to ask my parents I think that’s the best way to go about this.
and i do not think that is the way for all souls.
teaching them the Torah. Raising them with a Torah education and Torah values.
Though this article emphasizes the duty of the parents not to spoil their children, I think it’s also important that the seminaries and Chinuch apparatus prepare our daughters for financial distress also. As a Bachur we always learned Maamarim and are spoken to about Trados Haparnasa. But for girls there is zero mention or consideration that they most likely will be struggling with money at some point, as anecdotally I would say only about 30% of my friends are doing financially well at this stage. If a girl knows that her nails being done, buying any clothes water bottles and… Read more »
i think nail salons are one of the dumbest things. why would any jew waste money on going to a nail salon frequently. and if you want to marry someone and they’re the type of person who got a nose job or aesthetic plastic surgery to look better, you really have to ask yourself what your values are and if it’s really the right girl. or the type of girl who plans to get botox.
now let’s write another article. How about discussing Kibud Av va’Em? Lets discuss parents who have given up everything of themselves and for themselves to provide nicely for their children. This includes sending the children on the traveling camps, the most expensive seminaries and yeshivas, the ‘designer pajamas’ etc. Everything to make the children fit in with their contemporaries. Then when their children go off in to the world and do well for themselves they forget all about what their parents did for them, to the extent of never a shalach manos or an invitation for shabbos or yom tov.… Read more »
talking to your kids about this. telling them your feelings and wishes
I live in an affluent frum neighborhood, although I am not rich. The neighborhood grew around me. When we first moved here there were only a couple of families. I will say this, I have never seen so many unhappy people. Families own multiple homes, cars and have staff around the clock. The women complain constant remodeling/construction is being done on frum homes. It never seems enough, divorces right and left even with all that wealth. I met a mom who shops on Amazon once a day just to make sure she has something to do during the day, she… Read more »
not all rich people are like that.
But definitely the ones that are flashy and rich seem more insecure and their need of excess seems to be deeply rooted in something else. There will always be the look at me’s of the world. I know billionaires who live a life based on Tzedaka but you would never know it. They are unassuming in their wealth and give without recognition. However those billionaires are not frum. No social media flaunting, quiet and unassuming life, spearheading various charities without ever putting their name on a building or a campaign.