Dear Seminaries,
You’ve been very entertaining the other morning. Or should I say, the application forms that you give out have had us entertained the other morning.
Our family WhatsApp group has had a great time tearing that application to pieces. Not literally of course, because that would be detrimental to my sister who is so painstakingly filling it out. But figuratively, you have been the bane of our laughter yesterday.
Smart phones may not be allowed in seminary, but right now I can assure you that at least 80% of high school girls carry one and they come in very useful. Instead of calling up her siblings individually on the phone, my sister posted a picture of the application form grid — the grid where every sibling must be listed along with their marital status, profession, place of birth and current address.
Yep, that’s right. The seminary would very much like to know if you have any divorces in the family. And it means the world to them how many are on Shlichus and how many are –dare I say it?– working in a business.
I had a classmate who had 14 children in her family. Looking back, I don’t quite understand how she didn’t come with a bandaged arm to school the following day.
As one by one the various family members of mine around the world read my sisters post in our group, the answers starting coming.
“Tell them I milk cows. Wait a second, can you tell them I’m unemployed? Will that mean they won’t accept you?”
“I’m a mother, but I guess that won’t sound sophisticated enough for them… even though it’s the hardest job ever!”
“On a serious note, just write down Ta’s profession. Chances are they wont come running after you…”
“I work for the New York sanitation department. But I’m thinking of becoming a fireman.”
It’s funny but it’s also honestly a little sad. While we were able to laugh, my sister has every intention of filling out each box in that grid to the best of her ability. My brothers suggestions of “Just don’t go!” don’t really appeal to her.
The peer-pressure of going to seminary has lessened somewhat in the past two or three years, as more seminaries closed down and the choices of college degrees or shlichus right away became more popular.
But for many girls, the thrill of going to seminary is still one that is not easily thrown away.
Seeing as this particular seminary rejected me and my sister too (yep, we were ‘rejects’ and somehow, 5 or 6 years on, we’re doing great!) I don’t hold much hope for her acceptance.
She’s a ‘good’ a girl as I was but seminary heads can sit down at their tables and decide that she just isn’t good enough and that someone else is even ‘better’.
What this all means, I have no idea. The heads meet the girls for a total of ten minutes, read about the professions of the family members, learn a little Lubavitch family genealogy (ah, so one married a Smith and one married a Jones? wow….) and then stamp either their signet of approval or rejection on the hopes of a young girl.
Is there no other way? Well, at least we all had a good laugh this morning I guess.
Anonymous
I see that we are in agreement with each other about the situation of asking about background in a round about way. Yeshivas, day schools, and seminaries routinely ask for proof of Jewish background or geirus and that is fine if everyone involved understands the reasons for the questions.
i have a friend who got her daughter and friend because of who she knew. i have a daughter who will go if she wants to but i am not forcing her or letting her be under the pressure of you have to go. it dose not make you a better wife or mother.
quite sad to see that this subject has arrived in chabad to.
How on earth would the mothers maiden name determine if the girl in question is Jewish?? And so, if shes s fully fledged genuine Baalas Teshuva from way back, with the maiden name being, lets say, Mrs Black. . . she therefore is less Jewish than someone born frum, with a maiden name ‘well known in the Chabad world?? How sad is that!! and even more so, if the family background are True genuine Geirim, so they too, lose their chance?? Give me a break, if thats the reason theyre asking for mothers maiden name, its a real sad one.… Read more »
The reason for asking the mother’s maiden name on some application forms is possibly to determine if the child is truly Jewish. It is better to simply say, that the organization, camp, seminary, mesader kiddushin, etc needs proof of Jewish identity. It is better to be up front about it and state that providing proof is asked of everyone. Sems probably have a quota system so that they try to take a mixture from different backgrounds and possibly the intrusive questions are to determine background. Still, it seems very unprofessional to ask questions that have no bearing on the candidates… Read more »
I think that sem has its importance, but some people give too much importance to it. I mean, i’m finishing high school soon so i didn’t have my experience yet, but what i do know for sure is that i want to use the year after high school in a good way, to mature more and gain. I don’t know for sure if i’m goig to sem, but i don’t want it to be a wasted year. If i won’t go to sem, i’ll help shluchim, or kids with special needs. It doesn’t really matter in what seminary you go… Read more »
I think that sem has its importance, but some people give TOO MUCH importance to it… Im finishing high school soon, so i still didnt have my experience yet, but whatever ill do, what i’m lookin for is something that is going to make me grow, not just a year to Waste. I mean, if i wont go to sem, i’ll go help shluchim, or kids with special needs. I know girls who went to sem and didnt gain a thing, and girls who totally changed. It doesnt necessarily depend on the sem(in some cases it does) but mostly on… Read more »
Why do they need to know “mother’s maiden name” and all the other dozens of questions which are yentish???
I’m 155.
Good for you, I’m happy that you gained a lot in sem. My issue is with the highshools – they should be giving you all that too. In yeshiva, we learned real, non-watered-down chassidus – even in mesivtah. True, we learned a bit more in zal, but it was mostly additional quantity and not necessarily quality. I’m not putting down seminaries, I’m just saying they shouldn’t have to be so crucially necessary because you aren’t learning properly in highschool. The highschools should improve and give that to you.
I’m sorry break it to you but I grew up in an extremely chassidisher home, was exposed to loads of chassidus and chassidisher hanhagos and learned plenty sichos in high school, participated in achos hatmimim and was totally involved in any such activities …. Nevertheless my years at beis chana were pivotal to really understanding chassidus and what its all really about. The classes, the farbrengens, the atmosphere deeply ingrained chassidus in me for life. And all my friends too. I am grateful to my high school but it just did not give me what I’ve gotten in seminary. anyone… Read more »
the hanhala of seminary msy doesnt sleep for 2 months over the application progress. they have pur agmas nefesh from so many good girls and so few places.
yes their forms are ridiculous (been there, done that) but sem is worth the writers cramp!!!!!
its not overated in any way shape or form…though slightly over priced!
Then there is a problem with the girls high schools if they don’t teach that. I can understand the seminary is an additional year and may teach more, but it sounds like you weren’t exposed to these topics beforehand in at least a semi-comprehensive manner.
Just a drop in the ocean, just one step in an a mile, just a leap towards the furthest start, just a year in a life time but a life time carries on its the moment when you realize who you are!!!
The tuition is extremely difficult but I still live with the chassidus I’ve gained in seminary every day. I’m sorry but I’m not the only one. Most girls from my class and grade that went to my sem BCTZ gained tremendously. What I’ve gained there helps me in my marriage , in running a chassidisher home in raising my children and in my shlichus so far away from everyone. I thank hHashem every day for my two years in Beis Chana. And my mother who knew that for a chassidisher chinuch it is well worthwhile , is also reaping the… Read more »
Sorry Mr(s). 151
Couldnt resist writing the 150th comment!!
I guess as was said before, a huge amount of people are pretty sore about all this, hence these amazing results! But, if only we could all see a change, an understanding, a difference into whats been going on until now as a result of al this, it would be all worth it
I’m divorced, and don’t have money, my daughter applied to two seminaries and got accepted to both. I really think they look at the girl (her grades, behavior ,etc) otherwise i doubt she would’ve got in. She’s having now a great year in Seminary B’H and thanks me all the time but its really about her and her efforts.
You rock guy we need people like you around here what you wrote is so smart and simple but unfortunately many people think that if u dont go to sem you’re a BAD girl.
PS to # 148 everyone wants to give an opinion and remember there are thousands of people in the world
“Will this ever end!?”
Just what I like to hear. there’s more down-to-earth people out there than u think which do NOT care where u went and even more so if u didn’t go at all, the girl can be just as aidel from the start, so the judging here is just insane and abnormal. Years ago, it wasn’t such a huge ‘thing’ to go to Seminary cause girls used to back then go cause they really wanted to, i.e., to become a teacher, but nowadays it’s way too common and overrated, going too much for the social aspect, making the ones that never… Read more »
Thats the best idea I’ve heard in a long time; If such an event ever took place, you can be sure there would be ”standing room only”, no matter where the venue, would be. infact there would probably be queues outside. Which is why, come to think of it, it would never happen, the representative risks being bombarded by the crowds of mothers and grandmothers attending the evening, and I cant see anyone willing to take that risk; still, is is a fantastic idea. maybe they could just write an article or even an Op -ed explaining it all, its… Read more »
I sense a lot of Bitterness here
How about this
Chof Beis Shvat is around the corner.
Can we invite a Representative from each Sem .
To an open Evening,
with a MODERATOR asking ?–
to help us understand, how these SEMINARY WORK.
There application form.
There level of one and one care for each girl.
There classes etc etc.
Anyone up to organizing.
Please post on COL
If you can’t afford it, don’t go. As long as you do something productive meanwhile, like helping a friendship circle, shliach etc., bochurim don’t really care if you went to seminary. We have sisters, and we know it’s just a year to relax, have fun, and learn a bit. If you can’t afford it, don’t go into debt for it. Just don’t sit around for an extra year or go to college, and you” be fine for shidduchim. See how many people here don’t care? There are plenty more out there. And they all have sons that won’t care. Nothing… Read more »
How does someone cater to a girl’s needs in seminary by knowing who her brother is married to? I realize that if the sem girl left a sick mother or a new baby is born or a sibling gets engaged, it will affect her year at sem but just clue me in as to how it helps to know who the family’s mechutanim are.
This is a ridiculous article. If a sem is accepting a student. they want to know about her and where she comes from, what kinds family she has. its not determining if they will accept her. it is important to know once they DO accept her. If you never when to seminary, and you do not know any seminary hanhala, then you CAN”T JUDGE!!
I worked in a seminary… The more the sem knows about a student the better they can cater to her needs in Semindary.
What a ‘can of worms’ this Op-ed has produced. I cannot believe the amount of bitter, angry, sarcastic people there are out there; We’ve already ‘turned the page’ on COL website, and still the comments are pouring in.Why is no one coming forward from those sems,to calm down the masses? I knew that all this always was an issue, but I had no idea how many people were so strongly incensed, by it all; You’re right 140, it is , SO SAD
It’s so sad that it’s come to this. BH we have listened to the Rebbe and have large families. It’s not financially possible for the average parents to pay this kind of money to enable their daughters to attend the ‘popular’ sems, as well as pay yeshiva fees for the boys. ‘Ein somchim al hanes’.’ That’s besides the fact that it would appear the Israeli sems are often not much more than a glorified camp – trips & fun and a smattering of learning. It’s an unfortunate reality that the girls might be better off spending a year on shlichus,… Read more »
i havent gone to sem yet but from every single girl ive met, seminary (a good one not these trashy ones that open up every yr) was extremely affected by sem. it is disgusting to put down sem.
in two words : Cash Cows I come home from work after a long hard day of work. Let me tell you supprting a family is NOT a fairytale. ESPECIALLY with tution gas prices and food reduction. Just looking at THE COMMUNITY. i can’t believe what people do just because EVERYONE ELS Does. WHO is everyone els? MOST people dont have this PROBLEM. SO who may i ask who started this? It’s not a matter of intelligence its a matter of VALUES AND MATURITY. Do you n think that just because your father has a grocery store ( or a… Read more »
heck with this all do what ever you want!!! Crown heights is crazyyyyy! everyone stares looks at u glad i dont live there!!!!
the Chicago shidduch group just sent out a list of 109 shadchanum and that was not even a complete list of shadchanum. You do not have to fill out forms to get your child married like you must do to get your child into seminary. Any friend who knows your child can act as a shadchan. You can attend a shidduch meeting and make friends to network with. All kinds of people get married, not only the rich, beautiful, or well connected. Seeing the good in possibilities that come your way is the best advice that I can give anyone… Read more »
WHY YOU CAN’T YOU LOOK PAST THE BITTERNESS AND SEE IT FOR WHAT IT IS. CROWN HEIGHTS EXCELS IN THIS “YICHUS” AND “GESHE” BUSINESS. GO TO A NSHEI GATHERING AND ITS ALWAYS THE SAME BORING BUT “GESHE” PERSON WHO IS THE ENTERTAINMENT FOR THE EVENING. TE FACT THAT THERE ARE COUNTLESS UPON COUNTLESS AMAZINGLY TALENTED PEOPLE ABLE TO DO A MUCH BETTER JOB DOESN’T ENTER THE PICTURE A T A L L!!!!! IF SHE IS NOT “YICHUS” OR “GESHE” OR “SHPITS” SHE MAY AS WELL FORGET ABOUT THE FACT THAT SHE HAS TALENTS. THIS GIRL MAY BE BITTER BUT IT… Read more »
With all due respect you only say that because your embarassed to say that it was a waste of money.
OMG!! No 32! You put it so well! So many are in debt because of the Seminary ‘parsha’; and like you say, life in Sem, is anything BUT a preparation for life ahead; theyre insulated from the outside world, in all ways, the cooking is done for them, the lessons are prepared for them, they have their rooms, and its the PARENTS who are paying their ”rent”, food, trips and Shabbosim etc! Its all about the cost and fees that the parents have to make themselves ill over! Tell me , in which way are they being taught to be… Read more »
Clearly, Seminary has become ridiculous beyond ridiculous. Filling out a form about siblings? It is high time people stopped being sheep and stopped shelling out money that THEY DO NOT HAVE for an expensive year long camp experience that your DAUGHTERS DO NO NEED. Better take that money and put it away for a downpayment on a house. It is high time we end this insane cycle of doing that which is NOT in our best interest because of social pressures. Just SAY no! End of story. This situation has become beyond ridiculous. The Seminary heads have become demi-gods with… Read more »
Still not a word from the Heads of Seminary??
Shame . . . . .
Plzzzz dont become a victim to this rediculous crown heights stigma, it s not worth it. I went to sem in israel not the greatest name ,but still had the time of my life. never cared about the crown heights stigma never did and never will… i ve really come to see and learn over the years how some girls “nebach” walk around the streets of crown heights worrying about who s watching them> will they get into the best seminary , will they get the best shidduch, will they walk to impress every shaddchan ….. it s a mental… Read more »
I Have 2 relatives…and heres their story, the older one got “rejected” from seminary, just because people in power can do tha t. She ended up working for a shliach and getting married @20 to an amazing boy bh. The next relative didnt even as bother with all the sem application process , and went to work for a shliach. She also marri ed @20 to a great guy, who didnt give 2 flying hoots if she went to sem in isreal or not. Now let me tell u about my friend who’s daughter went through the whole system….valedictorian…honor student…got… Read more »
The ans is MOSHIACH i agee with most of these comments
Not the ones that say Sem is a waste of time and money.
We have the SAME PROMBLEM WITH SHIDDUCH CRISIS
The QUESTION that are asked and the order that they are asked is UNFAIR to put it mildly you must pass 200 ques to even get a good look at your Profile.
If anyone has any ideas WE ARE ALL YOUR PLEASE POST ON COL.
Meanwhile daven for MOSHIACH
I spoke to someone at the LA Sem. The cost of living with good food and amazing teachers, great shluchos organizing programs, trips etc. the only way to make it happen is with these prices. However they are working hard fundraising to be able to offer individual scholarships to families that need it.
my 11th grade daughter, top student, exemplary middos kah, fun , extremely popular with loads of friends , ffb gezer ( not that that makes her more special at all , but might make a difference to seminary heads) WANTS to stay here in crown heights for sem, saying she wants to sleep at home, not waste money and laughs at the notion that her choice of seminary determines her shidduch!
I am so proud! Thank you Abishter for this special girl!
everyone is kvetching about the 20,000 cost for sending your daughter for ONE year. I sent 4 boys to mesivta and zal the same year. the average cost per child was 12,500, and it went on for at least SIX years each.
maybe we should start putting an end to this as well. and don’t tell me to send my boys to local yeshivos, I leave out of town.
I excuse that behavior for shidduchim because the forms ask both male and female singles to list family members. When a person marries into a family, he or she will form relationships with his or her spouse’s siblings. The seminary however, has no need to know anything about the siblings.
What is funny is that everyone thinks their sem was the best and that’s bec they all had good experiences and obviously only know their own sem.To all the cynics out there and all those with acid-drip comments do yourself and everyone a huge favor BY NOT APPLYING to any sem. Do your own thing and be happy. BUT HUSH UP ALREADY!!!!!!
chazak v’ametz
may hashem give you strength
He will lead your daughters to where they are meant to go
There are some excellent seminaries in America/Canada, much more affordable
if you qualify, you can get roughly 15000$ from the combined grants of Pell, Masa, and touro college.
what about shidduch registration forms that ask about sibilings and their occupations?? is that the business of who knows how many boys?
The type of application described by the op-ed writer is deplorable. There is absolutely no reason for seminaries to pry into the lives of the siblings of the applicant. Absolutely none. Those who get rejected should write a letter to the hanhalla of that sem outlining just how inappropriate such questions are. They might even be able to put together a group of rejected girls to compose and sign the letter. Who needs such small minded thinking such as asking the marital status of siblings? Maybe their students will graduate to be yentas that need to know everything about everyone.… Read more »
the same Hashem that gave you the gift of children, will see to it to give you money to support them, where is your emunah and simcha????????
What’s wrong with whatsapp…. oh you have internet? You do that shtus??
i wanted to send my daughters to sem, I just did not have the money.
I have nine children I earn 70,000, it was impossible.
the real cost is about 20,000 per year.
no one has the answer accept borrow.
one problem so i borrow how do i pay back?.
It is very sad
having a large family means destitution if you try to live an honest life
I was rejected the first year, because I applied “too late”. The second year I was accepted only after they cashed my fathers’s check in full months before I even stepped in the seminary.
I was about to walk into Chitrik’s office and ask him: “how much is it for a smile???”
What I learnt in seminary??? Money rules the world, but that’s not new!!!!!!
they have montreal, new york, pretty good seminaries! went to montreal last year and the teachers there are the top!
Of course you can say that its immature on the part of the writer , as you yourself say, ALL your girls were accepted in the seminary of their choice! How very easy it is for you to say that; I wonder what your feelings and reaction would have been, had they NOT been accepted, and you would have tasted the bitter taste of rejection! Dont judge your neighbour until you’re in his place.. Somehow I dont think you would have written along the same lines. its so easy to pass judgement when one has everything one wants!
please tell me honestly who are they supposed to go to to discuss this matter.
a. the seminary hanahla ?
b the girls school principals?
c. the mashpiam of crown heights?
d. the rebbe?
I actually wanted to go to seminary for myself…not because everyone else was going but because i thought i would gain a lot from the experience. So because of the big expense, i helped my parents pay for it and i can say that it was all worth my money too 🙂
Why do they want the Girl to give parent date of birth ITS NOT A SHIDDUCH does age matter??
Believe it or not there actually are seminaries that care for each girl.
Ohel Chana of Melbourne, Australia is a great seminary. The hanhallah is amazing and they really want the best for each girl
Ohel Chana in Melbourne is the best. The staff truly cares, treat the girls fairly, and ii is just an amazing experience. It is run professionally and all girls who go love it.
Obviously the author is bitter that she was not accepted where she wanted to go. It is very immature to bash a place that you were dying to go and did not want you. Seminary is a great experience but not for everyone, just like any higher education is not for everyone. And yes, they do have to narrow down the choices so they do it according to who you are so they know at least who they are dealing with. And yes they want to deal with families known to them. And yes all my daughters got into the… Read more »
Why has this turned into a ”bashing arena?” Everyone is bashing everyone else 🙁 Whats all this about? I think the whole point and tachlis of this Op-ed was to point out the absurdity of the caliber of the forms that one is being made to fill in; its about trying to understand how and why the system works the way it does, its about seeking reasons and solutions. So why all the derogatory comments and remarks. why all the negative feedback’ From what I can see is she just wants clarity and explanations. Why does that warrant the replies… Read more »
Seminary does not determine if youre going to be succeessful later on in life. Its your own spiritual growth. Some ppl need it and some dont. Personally i went to seminary and i had an amazing experience. Some ppl go and they dont like it.
I agree that the tuition is expensive but if you gain and grow from seminary, then its all worth it.
GO OC MELBOURNE!
Stop and think! It’s impossible to measure how much harm is being done to our community and especially to our kids when generalized sweeping statements are made mocking all sems. Do all of you, including the original writer, think that you can get away with saying whatever you want, because you aren’t signing your name?? Believe me whatever you write will come home to roost one day! There are better ways to deal with problems than to badmouth all sems in a public forum. Unfortunately, the newsites may have a greater impact on the chinuch of our girls than the… Read more »
Actually, she’s a seminary alumna, kid. Not an alumnus. You know what i mean? A mistake so obvious makes your comment pretty much worthless to me. I didn’t even bother reading it – no reason to waste my time reading something written by an ignoramus. Actually, unfortunately for you, I did read it. Before you put someone down in such a nasty way, be certain that you are perfect. Like the Ba’al Shem Tov says, you see faults in others because they’re actually your own. Let this be a lesson in life for you, that you should treat people nicely,… Read more »
We all want to know the answer to that question ( about the siblings), but no ones answering it unfortunately
I’d love to see the application 🙂
I think everyone should boycott all the expensive ridiculous seminaries and go to bais rivka sem in NY. its a great sem, with great teachers and classes. plus its cheap. and maybe if people stop putting up with the expensive snobby sem’s demands, they will realize the error of their ways and modify the way they run things. it won’t help to kick and scream and cry about it all. seminaries dont care what a few people are saying, because the fact is they stilll get many applicants every year, willing to pay the ridiculous expenses. so the only way… Read more »
Please post the application on collive let us all really laugh
of course you gained a lot there, u did not pay for it. your parents did. I dont think its right to ask your parents to pay (minimum) 17 grand for a year abroad. its not right. and its def not right for people to ask it. its how much i paid for four years of college.
-C
We have no name nor anything and my daughter went to msy and I’m so grateful for the “best year of her life”.She loved the learning and close relationships formed.So she is in a Jewish college and did get credit for the year.So only gained from the experience. I am shocked by the negativity and bitterness.If you had better options, good for u but stop calling the rest of us fools for sending our daughter.
and dont care if they like yichus and money! I really gained a lot overthere!! and we have no yichus at all.
B C Tzfas THAT IS THE PLACE FOR ME!!
i know someone who only got accepted because the interviewer requested the parents to give a ‘donation’ to the sem. they basically paid full for their kid and two others. not right.
its all about money these days.open your eyes.
Number 28 GREAT IDEA please let us know what exactly you and Friend plan to do is it trips ,workshop.ETC ETC.
Please post IT ON COL its a real mitzvah.
MOSHIACH NOW
Read the post – it is clear satire of this issue and of the shidduch system.
That’s right . did anyone pay attention to #72. That $20,000 price may be even more by now…It”s purchasing 2 round trip tickets +cost of tuition+off Shabbos traveling expenses+ cell phones+ spending money. I made the Cheshbon, and with Seminary in Israel having one month off for Pesach and minus Tishrei Yomim Toivim and Shabbosim off where you have to fend for yourself….that adds up to only 8 months of seminary. This averages about $2,5000 or more a month! My daughter went a few years ago to Israel and she said that overall it was more like a camp with… Read more »
What is the point of this op-ed?
im actually in a”big seminary”, no hichus, name, divorce in my family and baal tchouva>
I have a few daughters, some went to Tzfas and some to Yerushalayim, Although Tzfas was fine, the was in Yerushalayim felt that the learning was great, care of hanholo very good and in general very happy with everything.
No self respecting parent should send their daughter’s to a specfic seminary due to peer pressure. I’m sick of parents telling me they send to sem xyz that cost 50% above the average b/c “how could I tell my daughter no”? Embarrassing.
That father that posted about taking his daughter to Israel during the year on a family trip has it right.
Love this is what we all do
Actually, 62, there are actually Sems , well one sem that I know of, that are actually asking those questions, that you’re finding so unbelievable
“I paid all in cash (and then some to bribe the right people!!!??”
excuse me? am I seeing right! You BRIBED your daughters way into Sem? Is that what its come to now? is that what works? is that the hidden agenda here? OMG!
well it is sad that we are all brainwashed into thinking that these sems(the 2 or 3 that are in israel) where all 300 or so girls want to go to and apply. and on the day that the acceptance and rejections come is tisha bav for most girls… such a system that puts our young neshomas through somuch stess and anxiety is wrong. and we allneed to blame not on the sem heads but our current schools that work with themandallow then to do what they do. they are all private buisnesses that make loads of money each year… Read more »
there is quarrel and confusion……
Whoa! What a deluge of reactions!
Obviously an extremely sensitive point over here, that touched an very raw nerve by many
Sad
My daughter is one of the girls that bh ended up in br seminary in ny. She is having an amazing year…learning with top notch educators and enjoying quality time old friends and new friends she met this year. Its about time we all ome together and show the over rated seminaries in isreal, thatvwe r not desp for their acceptance…..what a waste of time and money!!!!
are you SERIOUS?! size and height to know who can eat extra on shabbos?!?
The author may well be 25 or 26 by now. Not sure why 64 is questioning and commenting on her age? Surely its about feelings, and emotions, rather than ”age”, and we are entitled to both of those, regardless if how ‘old’ or ‘young’ we are?
I completely agree with everything no.68. said, and I couldnt have put it better myself;
If we could just understand how and what makes the system work, how, who and what is the deciding factor of where each one should be accepted/rejected, I think you may find a lot less of this yearly reaction as is the case right now
Actually THERE IS A SEMINARY WHO IS ASKING THOSE VERY QUESTIONS TODAY. WE ALL RECEIVED A FORM FROM THEM! CHECK OUT THEIR FORM! MAYBE IN YOUR TIME IT WAS DIFFERENT!!
what you are reffering to is one or 2 seminaries. please dont put down the other seminaries that dont do this! I work for a seminary and we do not do this!
im very happy for you that you got a good laugh out of your sisters application form but did you think of all the lashan hara and all that goes along with it??
And trying to convince the girls that if they don’t get into a top seminary, hey will ave a miserable time getting a good shidduch….. So not true, Baruch HaShem I know many girls who opted not to spend their parents dollars, or didn’t want to go to seminary, and Baruch HaShem are married to wonderful bicgurim and raising beautiful families Kah,,,
Having sent all my daughters to Sem – some for one year and some for two – according to their personal needs; I am saddened by the rejection that many girls have to face. But life is like that.. Not everyone can get the job they apply for – or get into the College of their choice; or get the shidduch that they thought they wanted. Disappointments are part of life. There is the idea of hashgocha protis – maybe it just wasn’t right for you? . Seminary should give girls a concentrated year or 2 of Torah unput to… Read more »
Couldn’t have said it better
We all know that the Staff and Administrators of the Seminaries are all laughing all the way to the bank! Parents are paying them $20,000 for a total of only 8 months a year. The Staff are BH now living comfortably with our money. This stupidity must come to an end!!
YOU DON`T HAVE TO GO!!!!
whatssap? you do that shtus??
now youre sister will NEVER get accepted…
I’m no COL fan, and I can’t stand it when you guys post op-eds written by “unknown” authors, BUT TODAY I AM PROUD OF YOU!!! Kudos to you COL and kudos to this author — whoever you are – you are 100% right. I could not have expressed this idea better.
Reading all the comments here, I sense s huge amount of bitterness, anger, frustration, and confusion; as a mother of SIX girls, all we’re asking is the follows; could any of you take the time and sit down to write to all us mothers, worldwide, to explain, briefly, because you are very busy, just “Exactly what its all about??” The writer is 100% correct, in everything she wrote, and it is’nt even so funny actually because its all true; when she says that we are asked to fill in ALL the jobs of out various other children, that part too,… Read more »
and that is dress size. Seminaries should not only request this, but they should require that all candidates be measured by a qualified tailor, who must then sign off on the size report. This must be accompanied by a medical report that includes the girl’s exact height, in inches for American sems and centimeters for sems abroad.
This will help the seminary principals find shidduchim for their talmidois, and it will also alert them as to which of them need to be denied food except on Shabbos until they reach the ideal size for their height.
I agree it does sound like agood placem but again its fees are exorbitant, how many of us could afford those prices?
And, I hear there is no grants or allowances at all; Doesnt seem right that our daughters cant go to a good Sem, because of its prices? Is there no way out?
women cant sing in front of men
you should know that if you went to chitrik
Hmmm 5-6 years older and you laugh and bash others without shame…maybe when they didn’t accept you…. they knew why….
You are a seminary alumnus, kid. Not an alumni. Alumni is the plural. Like fungus-fungi, you know what I mean? A mistake so obvious in the title makes your comment pretty much worthless to me. I didn’t even bother reading it – no reason to waste my time reading something written by an ignoramus. And for the rest of you, going to BR in CH is not necessarily “not going with the crowd”. It just means staying in CH – and for girls who live there, completely misses the point. Not going to seminary, or going to college (you want… Read more »
…but I applied to both Lod and Machon Shoshana, and neither of them asked such idiotic questions. I’m not sure which seminary you are applying to right now, but whatever it is – either the seminary is (has become?) psycho, or we are taking the idea of “good families” to an extreme. If a seminary asked that, I would either: 1) Fill out the application form and write that I don’t answer such questions (waste of application fee), or 2) just not go to that seminary – no reason for me to pay $12,000 to idiots. Maybe I would also… Read more »
Crown Heights for good classes, low cost and no dorming necessary. Melbourne for gr8 teachers,hanhola who care and a sem that is actually a not-for-profit organization.
I don’t understandwhy people choose to go to sems in Israel where there is a small pool from which to draw English-speaking teachers. Classes are often in Hebrew and/or via skype and normally have 50+ girls in each class. Contrast that to Melbourne: 2 classes of under 25 students in each, gr8 teachers pooled from the largest community out of CH.
Did not get the point of your comment…. way off!
Gluck next time though!
just saying this does not apply to chaya aydel seminary whatsoever. staff is amazing and caring and they definelty dont do an invasive family background check. if your daughter is looking for a place where she wants to be cared for and be able to be who she really is, CAS is the place to apply. & trust me, i know first hand
seminary is an important, valuable, enriching year of one’s life, for those that can make it so.
those who cannot, say its camp…
and say a person cannot afford seminary, why does he have to demonise the sem saying they take advantage of girls and steal your money?
i don’t understand.
I AM INDEBTED to my teachers in seminary who gave me some appreciation for chassidus; a drop in the ocean…
My lord You can write an article like this about every application form. Are you paying full tuition? If not they prob have a right to know why profession your in. Have you ever applied for any type of grant? There are so many valid complaints about seminary and our school system in general yet you rather talk about a sensible app form? Smartphones are useful and a lot of people have them. But non kosher meat is cheaper and most Jews eat it should we change the bible? Seminary or not, this article def doesn’t influence the decision.
I hear good things about the new LA seminary opening up my daughter and her friends will definatly apply there!
The Besht teaches us to look at every Jew in a positive way. Sometimes we better at doing that with not frum people on the street, but have no problem bashing an institution run by Lubavitch. Basic Chinuch, anyone?
I went to seminary in Porto Alegre, Brazil about 7 years ago and it was the best experience of my life. We were taken care of from beginning to end – all meals, yom tovs and shabbosim. Trips, gym and even art classes. But the learning was the best part of all. The emphasis was on independant and chavrusa learning. The amount of knowlege I amassed that year – as well as the skills to learn on my own forever – is incredible. It was also a lot cheaper than Israel – just $8,000 for the year. It’s all a… Read more »
Seminary, like Bochurim Shlichus is a construct. Constructs can be changed and are changed by the winds of time. But change can be hastened if their is wide acceptance of the simple fact that these are fallible institutions and recent constructs. In the past (pre-1994 and earlier) it was accepted that not everyone went on bachurim shlichus as it was the purvey of those who fit the mold for it. Today in the search for a discipline driver in our Zal’s, the administration hangs the sad and tepid threat of a poor shlichus or no shlichus over the heads of… Read more »
u guys have a great sense of humor. couldnt get cornier.
on a serious note, #49 i join along, “BAIS CHANA TZFAS THATS WHERE I WANNA BE! OH BABY!”
while were at it lets bash high schools. I think high schools are an even bigger waste if money than sem. 4 years = way more expensive. I didnt learn a thing. total waste of time.
there are girls who had a good year. please do not think that the majority of girls feel the same way as most of these comments. I personally had a wonderful year of ruchnius and enjoyed a year of learning and growing, with a bonus of also having a good time. I’m always thankful to my seminary in Tzfas who gave me a backbone for life! The strength I got from that year and the connection to the Rebbe is still ingrained in my heart. I owe all my teachers and hanhalah more than I can express in words….
pls join along!!!!!!
we can almost all agree that this is the #1 seminary for it really cares abt every single individual!!
If only every yeshivah will learn from them!!
everybody should know that some seminaries doesnt give there girls food
I would be impressed by a girl who didn’t go to Sem overseas but goes to Beis Rivka CH or the like. Not just following the crowds…
if you had the same expereince please sing along!!!!!!!
just give a look at the end of the video on collive https://staging.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=23382&alias=recording-of-yechidus-released
Why do they ask those questions about siblings?
Sounds just like my family chat;-)
Wtvr, the point of this article is its funny. If they want to discuss the crazy prices, they’ll write a more serious article. This is just funny. Period.
i have 2 daughters that went to sem abroad and 2 more that will one day iy”h. It was a very grueling experience, the pressure and anxiety was intense. although they both got in I feel deeply pained for the ones that did not, even if a sibling has a bad rap it is no excuse ever person needs to be looked at for their own merits.we do not live in a perfect world. I hope that more seminaries open to give girls more options and make sems less picky.
I went to seminary this year, it was fun, but a bit overrated and not for me, I left after a short while and don’t regret it at all. I realized I was brain washed and peer pressured to go, make sure YOU want to go, not society wanting you to go…
Huh?
I think seminary is a very important year in a girls life. Kind of like a middle step between high school and the real world. They are independant while dependant. I personally wasnt really interested in going to sem but i figured, being a chabad girl, thats what i HAVE to do. but now that i’ve finished sem, i couldnt have been more happy with my decision to go but one thing i think all seminaries need to work on is actually CARING for the girls individually and ACTUALLY taking the time to attend to their needs. you would think… Read more »
I’d like to know how many seminaries ask these questions. My guess? 1 or 2 in Israel. No other sane seminary would. So it is your sister’s (and another 300 hopeless girls) choice to apply to such seminary. They can go anywhere else, but they decided to apply to a place in which they find the process demeaning, and they are asking for more. What I find funny (and sad) is that your sister would like to go to a place that has been ridiculed by her emtire family. btw, if she gets in, how can she possibly take it… Read more »
no need to waste mony on sem,when you have no mony to marry off your kids. Go on birthright enjoy life.dont waste your parwnt money. Last but not least don’t forget about the fiscal cliff??? Don’t put money in the garbage, and let israli sem take advantage of u
I sent two of my daughters to a seminary in Tzfat. They had a great year very exciting and all, they saw Israel from a vantage point they’d probably never see it. and they deserved it.
Did it add ruchnious, not sure.
Was it worth the 20 thousand dollars a piece, certainly not, but thank G-D for scholarships!
Don’t forget that they charge 100 dollars for these interviews,,,,and they interview so many girls. It has become a fund raiser,while putting the girls through H—,not nice.
I have a cousin whose father passed away a while before she went to seminary and wrote so on her form. The interviewee didn’t bother to read her application and started asking about her father….
Whoever asked that must be in Tzfat themselves
whatsapp is a group text thing most people use for their families
whoever writes that sem is a waste of time was either rejected or did not enjoy the experience which is an unusual occurence. Seminary may be overrated but the good definitely weighs out the bad and to bash hanhala like that without knowing where they are coming from shows a degree of closedmindedness and biased opinions….everyone should do what;s best for them and stop expecting everyone to fit in the same mold, whether it’s the sem mold or the college or working mold. Get over it.
to be quite cynical……..
we have our daughter finishing bais rivka this year we offered if she stays home ill pay for her to goto to israel paid for 2 weeks with her friends….she loves the idea i hope her freinds sign on too…this seminary thing is way out of hand it does no good for anyone…we and other parents would like to see bais rivka locally become the norm with top notch chinuch with no need to send away…. my wife and freinds are thinking of ways to make staying in town exciting and fun…perhaps mid year to have 2 week trip somewhere… Read more »
is the order: 1. money 2. family name/yichus 3.personal qualities ?
This is not what this op ed was about. Everyone has the right to choose whether they want to go to seminary or not. It’s not right to say it is a waste of time
Sem is just a holding ground. It is an expensive one year camp experience. we should all change the trend.
My daughter went for two years and it gave her direction to last a lifetime. Marriage, children, teaching, college all came later, in the right time.
Maybe “their decision” (note the correct spellings!) is based on grammatical & general academic ability. If you speak, behave & dress in the same way as you write, you won’t give even a half-way decent impression. Try taking some personal pride in how you present yourself, no matter the medium.
Maybe it was your spelling and writing skills?
government documents do not inquire about such things
right??
lol!
my sister had to do it to! it was hilarious! but at least she was accepted after all that 🙂
Sem is a total waste of time. Get moving on with ur life. Don’t waste ur money and time on Sem, think of ur futer. Ur marriage ur job ur friends etc. does not depend on the Sem. U went to.
Whats a Whatsapp?
i also had a hard time having my interview for sem. the first question was where the money and i didnt even get in -why? no clue. I dont think im that bad. i am very studious, tzniusdik responsible and respectfull..i dont know what theyr desition is based on
everyone don’t go! then they’ll be forced to change! right now they have nothing to lose, so they simply don’t care!
I am so happy to have sent my daughters to 2 years of seminary. One away from home:good experience to be in an environment of learning and being in that mode and the 2nd year in Beis Rivkah:amazing experience. That your last chance to learn. You have a life time for college, work, etc..You won’t have another chance to learn and be imbued with chassidishkeit, torah.Good luck and if you can, make sure to go, here or elsewhere, but go and learn
I very rarely get through a whole op ed since they are usually waaaaay too long. This was short, funny, while bringing over a very valid point. THANK YOU!
hillarious 🙂
when they ask all of these seemingly crazy questions in the aplication paper, its so that once you get accepted you dont have to fill out all of the crazy government papers in a very short time limit.
if you can go to sem- do it just to have the experience of leaving home for a year before having to be responsible for yourself.
if you dont go- please dont spend the rest of your life rethinking your choices.
hatzlacha to all 12th graders!
It’s a different world. all my girls got in to the Seminary of their choice, one of my daughters in law didn’t go to Sem and they are all excellent wives, mothers, teachers, and successful. I don’t know if I would be so determined they all went to Sem today. it’s a business, a cattle market and the heads are hypocrites. Go work for a responsible, decent Shliach or get a job. You’ll achieve a lot more!
well after all those questions, how exactly do you think she should feel?
if they are not accurate why do the seminary ask if the SIBLINGS are divorced on the applications?
you forgot their passport numbers!! (not joking…my sem really asked)
crazy!! i totally agree!!! if they only want girls with yichus, just tell schools before 22 shvat that and they’ll let them know. cuz otherwise ppl pay tickets and interviews and the results are 🙁
Surprised you didn’t mention the $16-17,000 tuition fee !!
Ure awesome! Sem is a waste of money, go straight to college. Don’t waste your federal or state grants on them
I agree that family divorce or marriages of siblings do not speak to the quality of the girl, but many of the questions (and the interview, and the discussion with the principal) help to narrow the field. There are not enough spots. There are too many applicants. There have to be some sort of criteria… a 10 minute interview is not sufficient to make a determination. I do not think every girl needs or wants seminary, and they should not feel they are 2nd class girls if they choose not to go. That said, I do not understand why this… Read more »
Such bitterness
and i could not have said it better!
but somehow with all this writing about in the websites u will think the heads care. No they don’t. It just gets more ridiculous each year. Parent’s just remember: You don’t HAVE to send her. Its your choice.
My friends didn’t go and they are doing very well.